ADVICE on 270 purchase

[onehandgunner]

I am wanting to buy a 270 and am leaning towards RUGER of course. Don't really want the American. I like wood stocks. Don't know much about the M77 or M77 Mark 2 or the Hawkeye. What are features to look for. I understand that each one is an improvement of the previous model. I have a Weatherby Vanguard in 25-06 that I may sell. My son shoots left handed and the Vanguard roll over cheek piece right hand stock is a bit awkward for him, so if I get the Ruger it will be ambidextrous so to speak. So what do ya'll think?

 

[rugerjunkie]

Well...the first thing that comes to mind after reading your post is that just because there is no cheek peice , the Ruger isnt ambidextrious. The stock is canted to the right for a right handed shooter and to get a decent fit you really need a left handed rifle for a left handed shooter.

As for the 77's...

Each one isnt an improvement over the previous model , just different.
The 77 of course has the tang safety and a bit "fatter" feel to the stocks and normally hold one more round vs the MkII or Hawkeye. And you have the early desireable models such as the flatbolt,hollow bolts,and round top rifles.

The MkII went to the 3 position safety , a little bit slimmer stock with one less round of capacity , and stainless was offered. The later ones came with the LC-6 trigger that was made for the Hawkeye rifles. They are a little better. You can ID them by looking at the back of the trigger itself and it is hollowed out instead of being solid.

The Hawkeye is the same as the MKII but has the newer trigger and the stock design was slimmed down even further in the forearm. The Hawkeye initially went with matte blueing and bead blasted stainless. Later ones now have the nice satin blueing again.

Those are the main points I can think of off the top of my head. There are more minor ones but this will give you a good place to start.

Other points...
Dont listen to anyone that tries telling you Rugers dont shoot!
Most Ruger triggers need a little work or replaced if you want to spend a few more bucks.
Ruger has the best customer service out there if you have an issue with a rifle.
And don't be afraid of a good used rifle if it only has honest wear and doesnt look abused.

 

[triggerpull]

While the American does have a plasti-stock--that can easily be remedied and the trigger is very easy to lighten up--if you so desire--as well. In it's price class it's the best designed rifle I've ever seen. You get one for around $350--invest another $10.00 and a bit of time and you can make it shoot as well as rifles costing much more. I heard that boyd's now has a stock for them. My advice is go to a shop and take a close look at one--take a look at the bolt and the stock and receiver separated--it really is impressive what they've put into this budget offering.

 

[onehandgunner]

Welllll, having never shouldered a left handed rifle, for reasons not obvious to ya'll, I did not know there is a cant to the stock, aah shucks. My son is right eyed and shoots a pistol right handed, why he shoots a rifle left handed I do not know. I have nothing against the American, I just like wood on a gun. The American is some thing that I do need to look at . I own several Ruger single action revolvers and love them dearly. Ruger does make darn good affordable stuff.

 

[triggerpull]

I really don't see any advantage in getting a Mk II 77 over the American. The M77's have never really had a reputation as being tackdrivers. Seems like American buyers report better accuracy but both rifles have hammer foged barrels/rifling and my preference is for button rifling. Think I'd look at the Savage Trophy Hunter that now comes with a Nikon scope with BDC. Better value, greater accuracy and the accu-trigger can be lightened lower than the American's without clipping coils off the spring. :wink:

I have a couple trophy hunters (as well as axis rifles) and they are good shooters no doubt--but IMO not appreciably more accurate than the American with a little work. You're talking an XP package which will push your cost past $500 more than likely--and I've never bought a package set-up where the scope didn't end up in my junkers box. I only have 1 American and it's a 270--and with just a tad bit of tweaking it's a great value and delivers the goods IMO. But whatever floats your projectile. : )

 

[Quattroclick]

I would heartily recommend the tang safety M77. The earlier the better. All of mine (save one which is new in the box) shoot acceptably well, or better. Proper torquing of the action screws is a must, otherwise they might not shoot worth a hoot. A 270 is still reasonable if you shop around.

 

[triggerpull]

One last pitch for the american and I promise I'll shut up--the setting of the receiver screws is fabulous I believe as a result of the power-bed lugs--greatly reduces the "pressure voodoo" of torquing them in the quest for repeatable alignment.The safety also is spectacularly functional--IMO it is in exactly the right place and shape for true blind use while staying focused on the target.

 

[96/44]

I would highly recommend the M77 Hawkeye. It has the classic looks and handling of the older 77's, with a pretty nice trigger out of the box. I haven't seen one yet that wouldn't shoot MOA. The Americans shoot great, but the 77 is a classic you would be glad to hand down one day.

 

[rugerjunkie]

Gotta love these threads. Someone asks about some specific information about some RUGER rifles and there is always one (or more) in the crowd selling something the poster never asked about.

If they wanted to know about savage or which ever brand or model rifle...dont you think they'd ask? Kind of like a car salesman trying to show me something completely different than what i said im there to look at.

 

[triggerpull]

I really don't see any advantage in getting a Mk II 77 over the American. The M77's have never really had a reputation as being tackdrivers. Seems like American buyers report better accuracy but both rifles have hammer foged barrels/rifling and my preference is for button rifling. Think I'd look at the Savage Trophy Hunter that now comes with a Nikon scope with BDC. Better value, greater accuracy and the accu-trigger can be lightened lower than the American's without clipping coils off the spring. :wink:

I have a couple trophy hunters (as well as axis rifles) and they are good shooters no doubt--but IMO not appreciably more accurate than the American with a little work. You're talking an XP package which will push your cost past $500 more than likely--and I've never bought a package set-up where the scope didn't end up in my junkers box. I only have 1 American and it's a 270--and with just a tad bit of tweaking it's a great value and delivers the goods IMO. But whatever floats your projectile. : )

Well, let's be clear. The Savage Trophy Hunter's don't come with $50 Bushnell scopes that Savage used in the past. There might be some older Axis models still on the market that have them, but Savage has since upgraded to the Axis II that comes with the Weaver Kaspa scope. My shooting partner bought one of the last M11 package rifles with the accu-trigger but while they still had the cheap Bushnell's on them. He bought and mounted a Nikon Pro Staff with the standard reticle. He made ladder loads and I made what I believed would be a factory velocity duplication load in .308 Win. that chronographed 2819 FPS with the NOSLER 150 gr. Ballistic Tip over Ramshot TAC and produced groups of 5/8" or less at 100 yards.

Buy the American with the Redfield scope package and it will cost you more than the Savage Trophy Hunter that has the Nikon Pro Staff 3-9 x 40mm with the BDC reticle. No contest, IMO. And, why do some riflemakers hammer forge barrels/rifling? Because they can turn out about 3 barrels/minute. Button rifling has to be cut, takes more time and produces better accuracy.

It's not that I'm not a Ruger fan. The American Predator in 6.5 Creedmore is appealing to me. The deal breaker is pretty much the hammer forged barrel. I have seen a good number of shooters claiming very good accuracy with them, and better than can what be achieved by the M77 Hawkeye whose barrel is also hammer forged. Savage has always had an excellent reputation for accuracy from the button rifled barrels. So, yeah, you may not find it if it's wearing a $50 Bushnell scope, but that isn't a Trophy Hunter anyway. ALL Trophy Hunters come with the Nikon Pro Staff 3 -9 x 40mm with BDC.

If you want to take it a step further as far as long range precision, look to competition shooters and see how many are taking 600 & 1000 yard shots with hammer forged barrels/rifling, i.e. Ruger's, FN's or HK's. :wink:

I don't need convincing on the Savages--I have more of them than any other bolt-action brand--and I have gotten 1/4 MOA out of my 308 Axis with 150 ballistic silver tips too. I'm just saying the American 270--which I have--is very well designed and made and is an excellent value at it's price point.

 

[dad11345]

I vote for the Ruger M77 Hawkeye. Triggers make a big difference and I like the Hawkeye trigger. The 270 is a very good round for hunting and is pretty accurate too. My taste in hunting rifles is a little different as I like stainless and composite stocks.

 

[RJ556]

57K wrote " Button rifling has to be cut, takes more time and produces better accuracy." Just for information purposes, button rifling is not "cut". Hammer forging machines are not cheap. The rifling in a button rifled barrel is produced by pulling a carbide "button" that has a shape that impresses grooves in the barrel, to produce the rifling, as it is pulled through the bore of the barrel blank. Cut rifling, button rifling and hammer forged rifling methods all produce very accurate barrels when the process is applied in a quality manner. I may be wrong about this, but I think button rifled barrels cost less to produce than hammer forged barrels. RJ

 

[steveodtw]

How about a Ruger No. 1? It's the most "ambidextrous so to speak" rifle they make. Many have really nice wood on them. Yes, you will probably pay more than a Hawkeye or M77 but it's a fine, really unique rifle. I hunted with my No. 1B for many years and never wished for a fast second shot. They're not making .270s this year, but there should be some good previously owned ones around. Have a look.
http://ruger.com/products/no1/index.html

 

[OIF2]

Buy a new Hawkeye; it's a great rifle. The warranty and Ruger customer service is excellent and the rifles group well. A few custom touches will turn it into something really nice.
Bob

 

[RJ556]

57K, During the button rifling process, the button is normally passed through the barrel blank only one time, to impress, not cut the grooves. Some of the better button rifled barrels are lapped. As for cost, here is a paragraph from an article on button rifling.

"Button rifling is very common among most barrel makers in the United States. In fact, it is the most used method today, because of the small amount of time needed to make the rifling, and the fact that if the barrel-maker is experienced, the dimensions of the final product can be very accurate as well. The tooling and machinery used to produce button rifling is also very cheap. This is why this method is used a lot in mass production." :wink:

 

[onehandgunner]

This is a lot to think about. Not as simple as I thought it would be. I spent some time on Tuesday at a LGS and saw some interesting rifles but not very many Rugers, but lots of others. I'll keep looking. Thanks for the help.

 

[Bloodhound]

I always try to send new buyers looking for a solid Bolt gun to a Ruger 77 Tang Safety or a 77MKII. There are other rifles out there that are as good...but none better for the $$.

 

[triggerpull]

I always try to send new buyers looking for a solid Bolt gun to a Ruger 77 Tang Safety or a 77MKII. There are other rifles out there that are as good...but none better for the $$.

Being a Ruger fan, I hate to disagree. There's no way I'd buy a M77 Mk II or Hawkeye over a Savage M111 and I'd have change left over for scope and ammo (reloading components). I'd actually buy the American over the Mk II and I've owned Mk II's. If wood or laminate is your thing, there are still less expensive Savage options and all Savage rifles are button rifled rather than hammer forged. In a semi-auto handgun, hammer forging is not that big a deal to me unless it has polygonal rifling, which in that case you can keep it! Then again, I'm totally satisfied that regardless of price you're not gonna find anything more accurate or better constructed than an SR poly frame and I have both the SR45 and SR9.

Another very good option whose value shouldn't be overlooked are the CZ 550 American's if you run across one. :wink:

I built an AR based on a black hole weaponry polygonal rifled bore--and most of the time it shot well under MOA--what's wrong with that??

 

[triggerpull]

At some point you should accept that this is a Ruger-oriented forum--where people generally are interested in Rugers and they are not here to be talked out of buying or collecting them.

 

[RJ556]

I'll agree with you on that, Triggerpull. And button rifling or whatever, any attempt to make a Savage centerfire bolt action rifle look good is a futile attempt to make a "silk purse out of a sows ear". Just look at the back of that bolt/action. It looks like "straight up bootie" to me. :lol:

 

[triggerpull]

I'll agree with you on that, Triggerpull. And button rifling or whatever, any attempt to make a Savage centerfire bolt action rifle look good is a futile attempt to make a "silk purse out of a sows ear". Just look at the back of that bolt/action. It looks like "straight up bootie" to me. :lol:

Don't be knockin Savages either! They're great shooters.

 

[onehandgunner]

I have read on other forums that the Ruger American rifles are great shooters for the owners and also not so great for some. People have mentioned them on sale for $299.00, now that got my attention. If I had the $$$ I would consider a CZ550 series American or a Kimber. However the Kimbers are more like $$$$$$$$$$.

 

[triggerpull]

Ya know--if it's a gun that has reasonable market presence--it's probably a decent shooter right off the shelf. If it's a budget gun--it probably shoots OK but has some "cut corners" that make it cheap. The question is do you want to do the work yourself to make a match-grade rifle or spend the extra bucks for that kind of accuracy in a production rifle? My opinion is that most of the budget guns can be made to shoot much better with minimal extra investment--regardless of the barrel production technique. That's the way I usually go these days because I'm very poor and have to extract maximum performance for minimal investment. I'm a bit "specialist" in "cheapo renovations" but these guns usually hold their own against the fancy stuff at the range--and I take them without hesitation into the woods where I don't often see those fancy rigs. The American has some very unique features that I haven't found on other rifles in it's price class and make it a very worthwhile contender in the budget gun category. At some point you have to realistic about whether or not you want a match-grade paper puncher or a good workhorse gun that will get the job done out in the woods.

 

[onehandgunner]

triggerpull, I do understand what you are saying and agree with you. Ruger American and Savage do fit my price range and just leaving the gun alone and shooting the heck out of it can at times be the best. If it is not perfect I could whine to Ruger and see what they would do. How is Savage on their customer service? Just about every gun on the market today can shoot better than me anyway.

 

[triggerpull]

triggerpull, I do understand what you are saying and agree with you. Ruger American and Savage do fit my price range and just leaving the gun alone and shooting the heck out of it can at times be the best. If it is not perfect I could whine to Ruger and see what they would do. How is Savage on their customer service? Just about every gun on the market today can shoot better than me anyway.

I think Savage's service is top notch--as is Ruger's from what I hear.

 

[slimatsea]

1 piece bolt, controlled round feed, integral recoil lug, integral scope bases...the difference in design between the 77 (any variation) and the American are astronomical. One design is built to be shot, re-barreled, then shot some more and the other is disposable. Yes, it is accurate and a perfectly serviceable hunting tool especially at the pricepoint, but the two are not comparable. I'd put the savage 110 action squarely in the middle. The savage recoil lug is effectively a big washer, but it's effective enough. I'm not a fan of the three piece bolt. The barrel nut is ugly but it makes for precise headspacing. If I were in the market for a push feed bolt action I'd find it very difficult to buy a savage 110 or remington 700 when the weatherby vanguard is a superior design than them both. And for crying out loud, all anybody talks about is accuracy anymore. I haven't met many hunters in my life that have any business shooting past 300 yards. If a rifle is capable of 1.5 MOA then you have all the accuracy and precision you need to kill game.

 

[Corbi]

A # 1 A is ambidextrous and has a tang safety. They point like a magic wand, and are more compact than a bolt gun. They will have a wood stock that you like.

An added bonus is they are narrower than bolt actions. You can fit more in the gun safe!

A little more money than a bolt action.

Corbi

 

[horseshoe]

I bought a tang safety 77R in 280 about 3 weeks ago and after sighting it in I shot a .610 three shot group at 100 yards with a 139 grain hornady and H-4831 powder and I would be the last person to say a Ruger was not accurate. I guess I must be lucky but I have never owned a Ruger that did not shoot good and I have owned my share of them.

 

[308longdistance]

I'd go with either the M77 Tang safety or the Ruger American, also a tang safety. I have a hunting buddy who is left handed. He does have left handed Rugers, but he also has right hand tang safeties that he uses, says the Tang Safeties ain't bad for a lefty to operate.