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Single-Sixer
Just wondering. I think Ruger makes the Blackhawk convertible but it's single action. I was wondering who may make a 9mm wheel gun?
9mm revolver?
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Glupy
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Terry T said:
Taurus does; both blue and stainless. They are on the 85 model frame.
Dave
I checked Taurus and they still make one or two. I wonder why the 9mm revolver never took off? Is there something inherently wrong with a wheel gun in 9mm? To me there are a ton of 9mm pistols out there and most probably have one. Being able to use the same ammo in a pistol and revolver would make sense to me. Well I don't want a Taurus.
The Rugers and Smiths show up from time to time on Gunbroker.com. Ruger made them in the Police Service Six, the Speed Six and the Sp101 series. There's a couple out there now.
The Rugers use half or full moon clips. (Some very early Rugers did not use the clips.) All can be fired without the clips but the ejector does not work.
The Smiths are quite rare and don't show up too often. The K frame model 547 did not use full moom clips. The J frame model 940 does.
Power is between a hot 38 spl. and a soft 357mag.
I think the pocket autos like the new Ruger LC9 pretty much took the place of the small 9mm revolvers.
They do have a following. I have the 2" and 3" 940 and the 2" SP101. (Looking for a 3" SP101). I also have a blued 2 3/4" Speed Six and a blued 4" Police Service Six. :D
Terry T
The Rugers use half or full moon clips. (Some very early Rugers did not use the clips.) All can be fired without the clips but the ejector does not work.
The Smiths are quite rare and don't show up too often. The K frame model 547 did not use full moom clips. The J frame model 940 does.
Power is between a hot 38 spl. and a soft 357mag.
I think the pocket autos like the new Ruger LC9 pretty much took the place of the small 9mm revolvers.
They do have a following. I have the 2" and 3" 940 and the 2" SP101. (Looking for a 3" SP101). I also have a blued 2 3/4" Speed Six and a blued 4" Police Service Six. :D
Terry T
A few companies offer a cylender conversion to 9mm on S&W and Ruger revolvers. Pinnicale is one. Sort of pricy at around $275,00. I shoot wheelguns in IPSC and ICORE and think a 9mm with moonclips would be great.
I did the e mail the CEO at Ruger thing and "requested" that I thought it would be a good idea to offer the GP 100 as a convertable with a second 9mm cylender. But havent heard anything back.
I did the e mail the CEO at Ruger thing and "requested" that I thought it would be a good idea to offer the GP 100 as a convertable with a second 9mm cylender. But havent heard anything back.
oregon73
Blackhawk
They do indeed have a following, because most of the guys who have them aren't getting rid of them. Hard to find. I've been hoping Ruger would try out an LCR in 9mm. Wouldn't that be awesome?
Rob
Rob
First, before I give some drawbacks to DA 9mm revolvers, I want you to know that I'd love to have a mid size 6 shot adjustable sighted DA 9mm for matches and my 3" S&W small frame DA 9mm is a keeper.
Manufacture of these revolvers isn't discouraged just by limited market demand. 9mm and .40 S&W DA revolver extraction is complicated by high pressure and rim dimensions that vary by manufacturer. BHs are mostly unaffected by by these considerations because Ruger has never attempted to market 9mm BHs as single cartridge guns and BHs only have to extract one at a time with an extractor that doesn't use the extractor groove and is much more robust than a DA extractor. S&W's early model 547 9mm used spring loaded tabs that snaped back out of the extractor into the cases' grooves after being depressed as the cartridges were loaded. That system worked with some brands of brass but not others because auto pistol rim and extraction groove dimensions aren't tightly standardized throughout the industry like head space dimensions are. Along with the 9mm Secutity Six and Speed Six, S&W's 547 predated the wide distribution of inexpensive steel cased 9mm and .40 S&W. Steel cases do not contract back again after obturating as readily as brass cases so at the 35,000 psi of these two cartridges the force to extract 5 or 6 at once is a lot to ask DA extractors to do. My S&Ws which don't use the abondended model 547 system extract brass cases just fine but can't handle Wolf steel cased 9mm and .40 S&W. My guess is extracting steel cases bends the extractor rods of Taurus and Ruger 9mm DAs as well but I haven't owned one. While steel cases aren't a concern for reloaders, guns that sell in quantity to the unwashed masses have to be able to fire them or their manufacturers will get a lot of complaints.
Manufacture of these revolvers isn't discouraged just by limited market demand. 9mm and .40 S&W DA revolver extraction is complicated by high pressure and rim dimensions that vary by manufacturer. BHs are mostly unaffected by by these considerations because Ruger has never attempted to market 9mm BHs as single cartridge guns and BHs only have to extract one at a time with an extractor that doesn't use the extractor groove and is much more robust than a DA extractor. S&W's early model 547 9mm used spring loaded tabs that snaped back out of the extractor into the cases' grooves after being depressed as the cartridges were loaded. That system worked with some brands of brass but not others because auto pistol rim and extraction groove dimensions aren't tightly standardized throughout the industry like head space dimensions are. Along with the 9mm Secutity Six and Speed Six, S&W's 547 predated the wide distribution of inexpensive steel cased 9mm and .40 S&W. Steel cases do not contract back again after obturating as readily as brass cases so at the 35,000 psi of these two cartridges the force to extract 5 or 6 at once is a lot to ask DA extractors to do. My S&Ws which don't use the abondended model 547 system extract brass cases just fine but can't handle Wolf steel cased 9mm and .40 S&W. My guess is extracting steel cases bends the extractor rods of Taurus and Ruger 9mm DAs as well but I haven't owned one. While steel cases aren't a concern for reloaders, guns that sell in quantity to the unwashed masses have to be able to fire them or their manufacturers will get a lot of complaints.
I haven't heard of early Ruger 9mm DAs that worked differently than the Six series. How did they work?Terry T said:
k22fan said:
K22fan, All these are valid points. I have a 625 and love it so when I e mailed the CEO my idea was to use fullmoon clips. I understand how the 9mm is slightly tapered. They could chamber it in 38 super or 9x23 and we could still run 9mm in it. No different than running 38's in a 357. The only thing is you would have to use moonclips. then there is no extraction issues. Pennical and I believe Kilhoper offer that 9x23 in their cylnder conversions and you run any of those rounds. The jump shouldn't effect the accuracy "that much" unless you need a PPC revolver. It should be fine for IPSC/ICORE
You are right about Wolf or steel case ammo though I found out they are a no go in a wheelgun the hard way. Took a rubber mallet to extract them.
"K22fan"
A few very early Ruger Six series 9mm used a "music wire" extractor rather than the full or half moon clips.
Thanks to forum member 'Weaselmeatgravy", here's photo of the Pilorget extractor system. These are, of course, quite rare. The system worked but not as well as was hoped and did not offer any advantages other than to use the rimless round.
The full moon or half moon clips are just about the fastest reload one can do in a revolver.
Terry T
A few very early Ruger Six series 9mm used a "music wire" extractor rather than the full or half moon clips.
Thanks to forum member 'Weaselmeatgravy", here's photo of the Pilorget extractor system. These are, of course, quite rare. The system worked but not as well as was hoped and did not offer any advantages other than to use the rimless round.
The full moon or half moon clips are just about the fastest reload one can do in a revolver.
Terry T
Terry T.,
Thank-you for posting Weaselmeatgravy's picture of the Pilorget extractor. Looking at it it's vaguely familiar so I'd probably just forgotten. It probably had the same issues with variable case rims as the S&W model 547. The other draw back to this and the 547 is that cartridges have to be pressed in manually after they are released out of a speed loader which makes them unsuitable for matches that use time in score calculation. They'ed still be fun to have as shootable collector pieces.
Thank-you for posting Weaselmeatgravy's picture of the Pilorget extractor. Looking at it it's vaguely familiar so I'd probably just forgotten. It probably had the same issues with variable case rims as the S&W model 547. The other draw back to this and the 547 is that cartridges have to be pressed in manually after they are released out of a speed loader which makes them unsuitable for matches that use time in score calculation. They'ed still be fun to have as shootable collector pieces.
Just to be clear, was this with .45 ACP in your S&W model 625? I've wondered if 625s would have extraction difficulity with Wolf at about half the pressure of 9 mm and .40 S&W. Unlike their 9 mm, Wolf's .45s were never priced low enough to tempt me into trying them.Meeko said:
Meeko said:
Just to be clear, was this with .45 ACP in your S&W model 625? I've wondered if 625s would have extraction difficulity with Wolf at about half the pressure of 9 mm and .40 S&W. Unlike their 9 mm, Wolf's .45s were never priced low enough to tempt me into trying them.[/quote]
This was 45 ACP Wolf ammo in my 625. The cases seemed to "swell" upon firing and it would not budge. I couldn't even move the extractor rod at all. The cases became like they were glued to the clynder chamber walls. It was so stiff I actually was afraid I would bend my rod so I inserted a screwdriver from the front of the clynder and gave it a good (several) smacks. That way it was just the srewdriver against the inside of the cases.
Marked that in the don't do it category
