18 grains of 2400 under a 240grain 44mag - safe to download?

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edfardos

Single-Sixer
Joined
Sep 12, 2010
Messages
187
Most books suggest a starting load of 19grains of 2400 for a 240gr projectile in a 44mag cartridge. I'm trying to dload to 1220-1320 fps, which seems to be the speed limit for xtreme plated bullets befor they shed their jackets in my 9.5" redhawk's forcing cone.

any chance of ignition failure or stuck slug in the barrel?

anyone else loading this low charge in your revolvers?

I'm getting 1200 to 1370fps thru my f1 chrony. 1260fps on average some days, other days 1320fps on average... My chrony seems to change from day to day.


edfardos
 

Jimbo357mag

Hawkeye
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Feb 22, 2007
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So. Florida
They don't recommend downloading slow burning powders like 2400 for a reason. At the very least you might get unburned powder residue. I would suggest Unique or Universal powders for softer shooting loads. 8) 8)
 

mr surveyor

Blackhawk
Joined
Apr 4, 2008
Messages
629
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Texas
I loaded up 10 "test" rounds each, using 17.3 gr of 2400 with 240 gr Rim Rock SWC's and 240 gr Hornady XTP's.... I think I've fallen in love. Haven't had a chance to shoot through a chrony yet, but accuracy and performance was totally acceptable with both in my 7.5" SRH.
 

Hammerdown77

Blackhawk
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Jan 24, 2010
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North Alabama
You can download 2400 quite a bit, but you probably won't be happy doing it. Gets messy, unburnt powder, and I never had great accuracy.

2400 ain't like H110/296, it doesn't have that hard rule about not downloading.

Still, for what you are wanting, you should be able to find good accuracy a below 19 grains without starting to get a bunch of unburnt powder. Or not.

1200 fps is not too downloaded for 2400, though.
 

Rclark

Hunter
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Jan 1, 2009
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Butte, MT
There is no problem with downloading 2400.

I ran some tests from 16.0g to 20.0g of 2400 under 240g SWC using standard CCI-300 primers.

In 6 1/2" barrel BH

16.0g 1116fps,, 84 ES
17.0g 1167fps, 81 ES
18.0g 1233fps, 75 ES
18.5g 1243fps, 55 ES
19.0g 1265fps, 51 ES(like this load)
20.0g 1333fps, 53 ES

It wasn't until I hit 18.5g that my Extreme spread started to drop. It was like the powder 'came alive' .... Seemed more accurate too....
 

WESHOOT2

Hunter
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Duxbury, Vermont, USA
Perhaps switching away from that plated bullet will aid consistent performance.
Perhaps that plated bullet will perform properly with a different powder at lower velocities.
Perhaps your chronographing technique needs some refinement.
 

steve b

Single-Sixer
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Apr 20, 2010
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408
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N.E. Ohio
I started out with a Lee loader kit in '79. Ya know, them little yellow dippers ? The one that came with it threw I think 21.6 of 2400. I got another little yellow dipper and cut it off at the top of the handle to make lighter loads. I still use it, it throws 17.7grs. Have some in the basement right now with National Bullets 265gr copper-clad SWC's. I've used it with 240gr SWC's too. Don't recall any issues. I miss Nat'l Bullets copper-clad offerings ! Sigh. steve b
 

EDK

Single-Sixer
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barnhart-mo-usa
Elmer Keith's classic 44 SPECIAL load was 17.0 of 2400 wih 429421 in solid head cases. It was rated about 1200 FPS, IIRC. When the 44 MAGNUM was introduced, he developed his favorite...only?...load of 22.0 of 2400 in the magnum cases. Uncle Elmer believed in "the one good load" and stuck with it. Moden ballistic testing has suggested pressures are too high and loads should be reduced with current powders and SAAMI specifications.

I consider 2400 more flexible than 296/H110. The range of loads is a lot larger, even though there are issues with un-burned powder, etc until you hit the sweet spot. You can experiment with varying crimps and powders to fine tune the load. Elmer used standard WINCHESTER primers.
 

mindustrial

Single-Sixer
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Jan 6, 2009
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Location
dayton, oh
My mid-range load is 16.5 grains 2400, with a 240 lead swc, Winchester large pistol primers, and a heavy crimp. It is very accurate, and comfortable (in my S&W 29 &629) It loses accuracy under 16gr. Can't tell you about plated bullets- I'm guessing somewhere in the middle between 16.5 & 19 should be fine.
 

edfardos

Single-Sixer
Joined
Sep 12, 2010
Messages
187
thanks for the great information guys!

I have a good cheap source for the xtreme plated bullets, so I'm making them work in all my firearms (40, 223, 44, 9).

I was running them with h110 at 1430fps, but the most recent box shed plating in the forcing cone. They're rated to 1500fps, but I don't want to push it, so my goal is to reduce the charge until they stop separating, then tweak for accuracy. I have some oregon trail lead bullets for full house crowd pleasers. The last 25 shots at 18gr of 2400 didn't shed plating, and accuracy was acceptable. I mostly wanted to know if it was safe and wouldn't get stuck in the barrel, and you've more or less confirmed that. The diff between cci350mag and wlp primers was about 35fps, so they seem interchangeable. I do see some unburned powder, but no more than factory ammo leaves.

thanks again!

edfardos
 

edfardos

Single-Sixer
Joined
Sep 12, 2010
Messages
187
thanks for the great information guys!

I have a good cheap source for the xtreme plated bullets, so I'm making them work in all my firearms (40, 223, 44, 9).

I was running them with h110 at 1430fps, but the most recent box shed plating in the forcing cone. They're rated to 1500fps, but I don't want to push it, so my goal is to reduce the charge until they stop separating, then tweak for accuracy. I have some oregon trail lead bullets for full house crowd pleasers. The last 25 shots at 18gr of 2400 didn't shed plating, and accuracy was acceptable. I mostly wanted to know if it was safe and wouldn't get stuck in the barrel, and you've more or less confirmed that. The diff between cci350mag and wlp primers was about 35fps, so they seem interchangeable. I do see some unburned powder, but no more than factory ammo leaves.

thanks again!

edfardos
 

steve b

Single-Sixer
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Apr 20, 2010
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408
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N.E. Ohio
On another web forum, I started a thread as to how sensitive are your hands ? If I load bullet X up to 1000fps, or 1100, say, using Unique or anything faster. Then loaded down to the same velocity with same bullet, could you tell the difference, recoil-wise ? I know that I cannot. My hands are somewhat impaired. steve b
 

5of7

Hunter
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Sep 22, 2010
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SW. LOWER MICHIGAN
I have loaded 18/2400/240XTP and got 1216 fps on an average of 20 shots. Standard deviation was a little high and accuracy was not so hot, but the velocity level was what I was looking for.

I have chronographed ammo for many years and getting 5% difference in velocity is not unusual, but not as much as you are getting. When that happens, it is usually due to light conditions and the way the light hits the screens.

It is best to keep the screens in the shade if possible. If it is not possible, tipping the screens away from the sun helps too. Use a camera tripod for the adjustability on that. 8)
 

mike Sr.

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Nebr GOV Motto: It's your money and WE WANT IT NO
""Over the years, Keith had a number of Triple-Lock and 1926 Model Smith & Wesson .44 Special but these did not receive as much use as his Single Actions. This changed in the early 1950's when the Smith & Wesson 1950 Target .44 Special became THE sixgun. This was short-lived however as the .44 Magnum came along in 1956 and from there on, Elmer carried a .44 Magnum the ultimate sixgun.

I found four examples of Smith & Wesson double action packin' pistols in Keith's collection. Three of these were fully engraved and ivory stocked and fitted to flower carved holsters: A 4 1/2" .44 Magnum, a 4" .44 Magnum, and a 4" .44 Special. His everyday sixgun from the 1950's until his disabling stroke in 1981 was a 4" Smith & Wesson .44 Magnum, ivory stocked but plain blue and carried in a plain leather Milt Sparks holster.

I've never been able to handle the recoil of the .44 Magnum using the Magna or plainclothes stocks that Keith preferred. When I had the opportunity to examine the Keith sixguns, I found that all of his double action sixguns were fitted with ivory stocks that were expertly carved on the right side to fill in the hand perfectly and help control recoil. He definitely knew what it was all about!

Keith designed a series of bullets for the Lyman/Ideal Corporation that, with their distinctive semi-wadcutter shape, have come to be known simply as Keith bullets. Along with these bullets, Elmer came up with what have come to be known as the Keith loads. Some of these have been around for nearly sixty years and have still not been improved upon. The Keith loads are as follows:

.38 SPECIAL: For use in heavy-framed guns which today exist only as .357 Magnums, the Keith Lyman 173 grain bullet #358429 over 13.5 grains of #2400 with .38 Special brass. This load goes over 1400 fps. from my 8 3/8" Model 27 and is the most accurate load I have found for it. It will still go 1200+ fps. from a 3 1/2" Model 27 and makes an excellent small game load and defensive load.

.44 SPECIAL: Elmer's early load for his beloved Special was 18.5 grains of # 2400 with the 250 grain Keith bullet #429421 in balloon head cases. When solid cases came along, with less powder capacity, the charge was dropped to 17.0 grains. Both loads go over 1200+ fps. from a 7 1/2" Colt Single Action and are exceptionally accurate especially in a Smith & Wesson Model 24.

.45 COLT: Keith's early load was an extremely powerful 22.0 grains of #2400 again in balloon head cases. This was dropped to 20.0 grains and then to 18.5 grains in modern brass with all loads using the 260 grain #454424 Keith bullet. This is a 1150+ fps load and should be used only in modern .45 Colts. When the Ruger .45 Colt Blackhawk came along, Elmer upped the charge to 20.0 grains of #2400 again for nearly 1250 fps from a 7 1/2" barrel.

.45 AUTO RIM: Using the 238 grain #452423 Keith bullet or the #454424 .45 Colt Keith bullet over 7.5 grains of Unique in the stubby Auto Rim cases for use in Colt and Smith & Wesson revolvers gives 850 fps and 936 fps respectively and makes an excellent defensive six-gun/load combination when used in a Smith & Wesson 25-2 sixgun.

-44 MAGNUM: Keith early settled on 22.0 grains of #2400 with his #429421 bullet for 1225 fps. out of a 4" Smith, 1400+ fps out of a 6 1/2" Smith or 7 1/2" Ruger. These are hunting handloads pure and simple, with this load taking big game all over the world.


.41 MAGNUM: The .41 did not come along until the 1960's and Keith designed a new bullet #410459 for loading the Smith & Wesson and Ruger .41 Magnurns. His recommendation of 20.0 grains of #2400 clocks out at 1500 fps from either an 8 3/8" Smith or 7 1/2" Ruger Bisley. This is a very flat-shooting and accurate load and certainly adequate for any deer or black bear.

We live in a throw-away society. People are forgotten quickly, too quickly. Elmer Keith lived at a time we will never see again; it would be a shame if his guns and trophies are not saved for future generations. ""
 

Montelores

Buckeye
Joined
Oct 29, 2009
Messages
1,337
Jimbo357mag said:
They don't recommend downloading slow burning powders like 2400 for a reason. At the very least you might get unburned powder residue. I would suggest Unique or Universal powders for softer shooting loads. 8) 8)


I'm not (yet) a reloader, but can someone give me a brief overview on the use of slow-burning vs. fast-burning powders in regard to case size or barrel length? Or any other parameter which might be important?

Thanks to all (and Jimbo, too) -

Monty
 
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