P89 torture test?

[ArmasDeFuego]

Back in the late 80s when the M9 slides started catastrophically failing, Ruger did a demo where they plugged a P pistol bbl w a rod and fired a 9mm NATO round into it, then removed a section of slide fwd of the extractor and fired 5,000 rounds of 9mm NATO ammo through the same gun. Anybody remember that? Got pics?

 

[modrifle3]

This slide failure is over stated and limited to slides manufactered in Italy. Not that I would even attempt but if the rod is resting against the round this is not that extreme a test as it appears. If you leave a gap...there is your issue.

But to your question I have never seen that test before. Structurally I don't belive there is a pistol heavier built than the p89.

 

[ArmasDeFuego]

This slide failure is over stated and limited to slides manufactered in Italy. Not that I would even attempt but if the rod is resting against the round this is not that extreme a test as it appears. If you leave a gap...there is your issue.

But to your question I have never seen that test before. Structurally I don't belive there is a pistol heavier built than the p89.

It was a P85 and I did find some pics, but they are not that good.

BTW, the "obstructed bbl test" is a standard item w the feds now, and there is a gap.

Also, I was in the service when all that M9 stuff was going on... over 18 pistols did it by the early 90s, some in testing, some in service, some w suspect ammo, some w std issue, round counts from 2,000 to over 30,000... I never worried about it. In the late 80s 12 pistols tested to failure ALL did it, but by the late 90s when I retired pistols pulled from the line and tested to failure had an avg slide life of over 75,000 rounds, w a range from 55,000 to 95,000. Somebody fixed sumthin' that wasn't "broke"?

 

[revhigh]

This slide failure is over stated and limited to slides manufactered in Italy. Not that I would even attempt but if the rod is resting against the round this is not that extreme a test as it appears. If you leave a gap...there is your issue.

But to your question I have never seen that test before. Structurally I don't belive there is a pistol heavier built than the p89.

The slides of M9's NEVER had multiple catastrophic failures that I remember .... They had a 'few' failures due to Navy Seals grossly overloading hand loaded ammo. Regarding the Ruger 'torture' test .... It also depends on the tightness of the rod. A loosely fitting rod against the bullet would likely have little effect on most guns. Even if it WASN'T fully against the bullet, it would likely be fine.

Hammer a squib in a Ruger (or any) barrel and see what happens .... Hint ... Stand back.

There's ways to 'trick' any test .... Ruger just figured out how to do it in that instance.

REV

 

[revhigh]

But to your question I have never seen that test before. Structurally I don't belive there is a pistol heavier built than the p89.

Agreed, the P's are very robust guns, but did you ever see a CZ97 ?


REV

 

[ArmasDeFuego]

The slides of M9's NEVER had multiple catastrophic failures that I remember ....
Hammer a squib in a Ruger (or any) barrel and see what happens .... Hint ... Stand back. REV

Yes, they did. By early 90s, the 4 SEAL guns you mentioned w suspect ammo, but also 12 guns under test conditions w good service ammo (all failed, range from just under 5K to just over 30K rounds), and 2 in service (At LAFB in TX IIRC). A few more later. Why we were tagging guns at 1K rounds until slide mod was completed (slide notch/modified hammer pivot pin).

Beretta won all the court cases cuzz the only part w a contract specified service life was the frame, and it was for just 5K rounds.

A squib is what the feds (DHS, DOJ) obstructed bore test is supposed to simulate. Obstruction is 0.5 or 1.0 inch on front of chamber and round fired into it. Pistol can be "damaged", but has to function after that. Berettas, SIGs, HKs, Glocks, and S&Ws have all passed that test.

 

[revhigh]

The slides of M9's NEVER had multiple catastrophic failures that I remember ....
Hammer a squib in a Ruger (or any) barrel and see what happens .... Hint ... Stand back. REV

Yes, they did. By early 90s, the 4 SEAL guns you mentioned w suspect ammo, but also 12 guns under test conditions w good service ammo (all failed, range from just under 5K to just over 30K rounds), and 2 in service (At LAFB in TX IIRC). A few more later. Why we were tagging guns at 1K rounds until slide mod was completed (slide notch/modified hammer pivot pin).

Beretta won all the court cases cuzz the only part w a contract specified service life was the frame, and it was for just 5K rounds.

A squib is what the feds (DHS, DOJ) obstructed bore test is supposed to simulate. Obstruction is 0.5 or 1.0 inch on front of chamber and round fired into it. Pistol can be "damaged", but has to function after that. Berettas, SIGs, HKs, Glocks, and S&Ws have all passed that test.

Rugers didn't pass ?

For all intents and purposes, the number of 'legitimate' failures was very small, compared to the number of guns in service, is what I meant. Although I don't care for the Berettas, I will concede they're decent guns. I'd take a CZ75 or Sig 226 ANY DAY over an M9 in a full size 9 platform, especially for accuracy.

REV

 

[ArmasDeFuego]

Rugers didn't pass ?

For all intents and purposes, the number of 'legitimate' failures was very small, compared to the number of guns in service, is what I meant. REV

AFAIK, Ruger did not actually enter any pistols in the INS/BP/DHS trials of 94/99/04 (Beretta, SIG and HK passed those), nor the more recent DOJ trials (Glock and S&W passed that one).

IIRC, some Rugers have been issued in the fed prison system, but I don't know if that test is done for those. I don't keep up w this like I used to...

Yep. Even after all that stuff and the court cases, the military has entered into numerous follow on contracts for more M9/M9A1s. Several ID/IQ (indefinite delivery/indefinite quantity) contracts w options for up to 450,000 pistols over 5 years for example.

 

[Al James]

They internally threaded the barrel and screwed in the plug. At the same time they cut out one side of the slide. It blew the extractor out to places unknown and bulged the barrel. After replacing both it functioned perfectly with the SAME slide. When the Ruger engineers went to WBR with there findings the story goes that he responded with [paraphrasing here] "I told you that I designed it strong, not quit playing with your toys and go make some money"

Regardless of how you want to explain away the Beretta slide failures and the Glock KB's, the truth is you don't have to come up with excuses for P series guns because they don't blow up.

 

[ArmasDeFuego]

They internally threaded the barrel and screwed in the plug. At the same time they cut out one side of the slide. It blew the extractor out to places unknown and bulged the barrel. After replacing both it functioned perfectly with the SAME slide. When the Ruger engineers went to WBR with there findings the story goes that he responded with [paraphrasing here] "I told you that I designed it strong, not quit playing with your toys and go make some money"

Regardless of how you want to explain away the Beretta slide failures and the Glock KB's, the truth is you don't have to come up with excuses for P series guns because they don't blow up.

Thanks for the details; my memory was fuzzy on that. Still looking for better pix... I have some scans that are OK.

 

[modrifle3]

At least after the beretta slide flys off and my glock explodes I can through my p89 at the enemy rendering them unconscious due to its heft. LOL. I will probably get better groups.

 

[modrifle3]

Throw...nothing like a misspelled word to ruin a funny post.

 

[Al James]

Thoroughly throw it through em!

 

[ArmasDeFuego]

The pix I could find from Shooting Times May 1990:

 

[Al James]

Not sure if it was my browser or what but I could not get a good look at the article or pictures. Pretty cool article either way. I'm sure that was a lot of PR on Ruger's part too. Article was from October 1990 right around the P85 recall if I recall. Good time for some GOOD news.