Is Open Carry contributing to crime?

[vito]

Since some people think that guns have a mind of their own, and merely having one risks a sudden onset of homicical rage with the gun jumping out of a holster and beginning shooting at old women and little children. Open carry means the gun doesn't have as much problem getting free of restraint and starting to kill people.

Personally I think open carry, if done by enough people in a locaation, can certainly have an effect in reducing the likelihood that a criminal would attempt to commit a crime. But if only a single person is open carrying, then the criminal might be tempted to just try to eliminate that person before beginning the planned crime. So even if open carry were legal, until I observed numerous others open carrying in public, I would continue to limit myself to concealed carry.

 

[Johnny-Baseball]

Aw dammit Vito. There you go using common sense again.

 

[Mobuck]

Criminals are likely to be a bit more careful if they know there's a good chance their next victim may be armed AND that others who are armed will help those who aren't.
We need to understand that police aren't capable of preventing crime. The way to prevent crime is to make the criminals afraid of the immediate consequences of their actions.

 

[Johnny-Baseball]

What I've never seen is law enforcement disclosures of armed citizen victims whose weapon was stolen by the perp during the course of committing a felony. If I knew that 20% (or whatever meaningful percentage) of such victims' weapons were stolen, I'd be concerned...but that would probably just compel me to concealed carry.

That's just me.

 

[contender]

"Criminals are likely to be a bit more careful if they know there's a good chance their next victim may be armed AND that others who are armed will help those who aren't."

I read a recent story somewhere about the "mass shootings" saying that almost all of the successful ones were in "gun free" zones. And we do hear stories of how a potential shooter has been taken out by an armed citizen.

I also heard that a lot of criminals now seem to get their illegally acquired guns by stealing them from automobiles.

Open carry has been legal in NC for as long as I can remember. And until the last dozen or so years,, wasn't seen as much. It was because many who carried either carried concealed (before it was legal,) or didn't feel threatened enough to need to carry a gun at all. Now that we have CCW,, AND the way the media has painted a "doom & gloom" attitude of daily life,, many now go armed. And I see more open carry.
Long before CCW was made legal in NC,, I would carry open. I was in my late 20's,, and my Dad asked me; "Why do you carry that gun,, what are you afraid of?" Now,, my Dad, my brother & I are all Vets. But I easily replied; "Dad,, I'm not scared of anyone,, but I'm prepared for anything. I'd rather have it & never need it, than need it & not have it." My Dad said; "Good answer."

 

[s4s4u]

Gun laws don't apply to criminals. Anti's just don't understand how that works.

 

[Randyzzz]

Open Carry is legal here in Oregon. I have my permit, and always carry concealed unless I'm up in the woods or like situations- walking the dogs and such. I do feel that Vito's point is valid, although I don't know if there is any evidence to back it up.

What I do know is: as gun owners I feel it is our duty to put forth as positive an image as possible for those we come in contact with. Shopping with my wife gives me ample time to observe others- and what I have seen is that people tend to shy away from those who open carry once they have seen the gun. Not all but a good percentage. Especially mothers with young kids in tow. Now why they shy away is anyone's guess- but I'm guessing it's because of some degree of feeling uncomfortable. And what is human nature towards things that make us feel uncomfortable? We try and eliminate it. So the next time a gun issue comes up for vote those who feel uncomfortable might just vote to restrict gun rights. Yeah, that's a long road from A to B, but we need all the positive "press" that we can get.

Another reason I choose not to open carry is that I would rather not have anyone around me know I'm armed. I carry to protect myself and my family, and other lives if necessary. I would sure hate to be in a mini-mart and have a robbery go down. Now, if all they are taking is money they can have it for all I care. Not worth having my life upended for a couple hundred bucks that belongs to QuickieMart. But I can imagine some dummy blurting out "You've got a gun- do something!". Now it's a gunfight, hopefully no one gets hurt that shouldn't, and I've got tons of paper work, interviews, a confiscated firearm, and maybe even court time and a lawsuit. Nope. Don't want to go there. And I even have USCCA coverage. It has to be a life and death situation or it stays concealed.

 

[blume357]

"I have yet to see anyone open carry here in S.C."

You must not be looking too close. I was in Greenville yesterday,, and saw (2) people open carrying. Until I get definitive clarification of the law,, as a non-resident,, I won't carry open there. I saw one of those OC guys yesterday,, in Cabelas,, and asked the clerk I was talking to about non-residents OCing,, and he wasn't sure.

I see it often here in NC.

It's legal to everyone.. even you folks from 'up North' as long as you can legally own a gun.

Actually Contender you could have open carried here for the last two years or more before the constitutional carry law recently passed. since you have a N.C. concealed carry permit. yep, I must not be paying attention....

 

[Bigbore5]

I don't believe open carry should be "allowed". I believe it should be mandated that every adult be required to be armed at every time and in every place outside of the house. To ensure proper firearms proficiency, it should be a weekly course from sixth grade and up (including college) to graduate. There'd be less bs beliefs about guns, because everyone would be proficient in their use. As for most crimes, enact legislation to protect the people forced to shoot someone who needed shot.

 

[contender]

"as gun owners I feel it is our duty to put forth as positive an image as possible for those we come in contact with. Shopping with my wife gives me ample time to observe others- and what I have seen is that people tend to shy away from those who open carry once they have seen the gun. Not all but a good percentage. Especially mothers with young kids in tow. Now why they shy away is anyone's guess- but I'm guessing it's because of some degree of feeling uncomfortable. And what is human nature towards things that make us feel uncomfortable? We try and eliminate it."

Randyzzz has a somewhat valid point.

However,, I also think it depends upon WHERE you are to see either more shy away from you as a gun owner,, or if they actually engage you in conversation.

Yes,, we as gun owners should put forth a positive image. But by open carrying,,, I have found myself in several discussions with others in many public places about guns, or carrying etc. By being polite, being aware of others around you,, (NEVER pull it out to show it off,) and offering a very positive discussion about the legalities AND showing others that not all gun owners are the knuckle-dragging neanderthals the media like to paint us all as being,, does give us a positive image. By being well dressed, polite, and calm,, you can often discuss your views, your firearm choice, or whatever with strangers easily. And OFTEN,, I've seen people "around" listening in but not engaging with us. I like to think that by presenting myself as a law-abiding, calm, intelligent, (I hope I appear that way to them,) person,, I'm debunking their pre-conceived notions of what the media has fed them about us.
But going OC in a place full of very liberal folks,, where you may be seriously outnumbered,, may not be a good idea either. Just like jackals,, they gain their :strength" from their numbers.
However,, in many public places,, even in a liberal area,, w/o a crowd etc,, it can often give them a different perspective.

 

[Bigbore5]

I see Contenders point and agree that we are ambassadors of a sort. But human nature is to normalize and lose fear in things we see regularly. If the sheeple saw guns on a daily basis, they would lose some of the stigma the "elite" (read as "hopeful tyrants") have created. I see open carry very regularly in my area now. People who used to look at it funny in the grocery store now pay no attention to it. Normally I do carry concealed, but that's because I am used to it because my company only allows concealed carry when at work.

 

[Mobuck]

A while back, I had a slight 'confrontation' with a 'non-gun friendly' female. In a loud, antagonistic voice she announced "You have a gun". Before I could stop myself, I responded "And YOU have a big mouth. Both can be an advantage or disadvantage depending on the usage". I left her standing with mouth open and a confused look.

 

[vito]

Where I live (Illinois, but not Chicago), open carry is not legal. (And despite what many believe, concealed carry here is both legal and common with "No Guns" signs not commonly seen outside of Chicago). I have no doubt that if anyone open carried the police would be called immediately by panicked snowflakes. Several years ago an individual was arrested for wearing a visible empty holster, but admittedly, that was before legal concealed carry became the law here in Illinois. I well recall, however, while traveling through Wyoming a few years back, of being on line at a Starbucks to get my wife her morning coffee fix, and seeing an older gentleman in front of me carring a slung AR type rifle, short barreled, as well as what appeared to be a 45 Colt revolver on his belt. No one else on line seemed the least bit disturbed. When I came to the counter to order the coffee, the barrista commented that he wished more folks would be open carrying firearms as it made him feel safer that no criminal would attempt a robbery in the presence of armed customers.

 

[contender]

"human nature is to normalize and lose fear in things we see regularly. If the sheeple saw guns on a daily basis, they would lose some of the stigma the "elite" (read as "hopeful tyrants") have created."

This is my exact point. By allowing more & more people to see firearms,, it can easily remove the stigma created by the fear mongers, the anti-gun types, etc.

Education is the key.

We used to have "Hunter Safety" classes in schools all over. Now,, it's much less common. If you educate kids early enough about the safety aspects, as well as the normal useful purposes of firearms,, you can easily deter many problems.

Many of us are old enough to remember gun racks in trucks at schools. or the taking of a firearm & ammo to school to be able to hunt on the way home. or other very similar activities. And yet,, we didn't have the problems of kids even considering using a gun to attack classmates or whatever.
We had bullying back then as well. We also had schoolyard fights. Kids were not as pampered or sheltered back then as they are today. And many, many adults grew up with the more "modern" attitudes we now face. Guns were used as a symbol of bad, evil, etc.
So, by allowing people actually see those "evil guns" out & about,, in daily lives, WITHOUT the owners doing anything wrong or bad,, it can reduce if not remove a lot of the anti-gun stigma we face.

And if any criminal types feel they may have to face an armed person,, OR persons,, (several) they will not want to try their crimes as readily in such places.

Now,, I had to chuckle at Mobuck's reaction & response to the woman who confronted him. While it most likely did NOT change her attitude,, it would have been fun to see.

A similar thing was said somewhere long ago. I can't recall by whom or where. But it was along the lines of where a woman confronted someone accusing them of something because he had a firearm. Saying because he had a gun, there would be crime. His response was along the lines of; "You have female parts, and you have the ability to be a hooker,, are you?"

We as gun owners are very fortunate nowadays that we do have CCW in a LOT more states than we used to have. And we also have Open Carry & Constitutional Carry. We have options. We all can CHOOSE how we carry,, whereas for many decades,, we weren't legally allowed to carry,, or were restricted. The choice of HOW we carry is can be equated to what we carry, & what caliber we prefer etc. Everybody has their own preferences, and whatever works for them is fine with me.

At least now we do have more options,, legally.

 

[J. Yuma]

A while back, I had a slight 'confrontation' with a 'non-gun friendly' female. In a loud, antagonistic voice she announced "You have a gun". Before I could stop myself, I responded "And YOU have a big mouth. Both can be an advantage or disadvantage depending on the usage". I left her standing with mouth open and a confused look.

reminds me of a story, I think it was about Winston Churchill.
He was confronted by a woman who accused him of being drunk, to which he replied something like: Madam, I am drunk, but you are ugly. Tomorrow I will be sober, but you will still be ugly.

I spent the first 69 years of my life without any interest in owning a firearm. It finally dawned on me that:
1.a firearm was similar to any other tool that was useful, and dangerous, a chainsaw for example.
2. I've always believed that life is sweet, but can be perilous, and there are "werewolves" out there among us.

The two pieces of logic compelled me to become familiar with firearms, tools that are useful, dangerous, and will deter all but the craziest criminals.
In NC, it's not unusual to see OC, but in my past mind, the presence of an OC citizen was "unsettling?" Since I started going to a local indoor range, I'm no longer intimidated with firearms, I've realized that many ladies are familiar and proficient with firearms. One time, a grandma set up next to me with a small pistol and was putting holes in fairly tight groups at 75'
I'm retired, so spend quite a bit of time reading. I read a lot about criminals and the lack of prosecution for dangerous crimes.
I'm starting to think that maybe it's time to concealed carry.

 

[J. Yuma]

"human nature is to normalize and lose fear in things we see regularly. If the sheeple saw guns on a daily basis, they would lose some of the stigma the "elite" (read as "hopeful tyrants") have created."

This is my exact point. By allowing more & more people to see firearms,, it can easily remove the stigma created by the fear mongers, the anti-gun types, etc.

Education is the key.

We used to have "Hunter Safety" classes in schools all over. Now,, it's much less common. If you educate kids early enough about the safety aspects, as well as the normal useful purposes of firearms,, you can easily deter many problems.

Many of us are old enough to remember gun racks in trucks at schools. or the taking of a firearm & ammo to school to be able to hunt on the way home. or other very similar activities. And yet,, we didn't have the problems of kids even considering using a gun to attack classmates or whatever.
We had bullying back then as well. We also had schoolyard fights. Kids were not as pampered or sheltered back then as they are today. And many, many adults grew up with the more "modern" attitudes we now face. Guns were used as a symbol of bad, evil, etc.
So, by allowing people actually see those "evil guns" out & about,, in daily lives, WITHOUT the owners doing anything wrong or bad,, it can reduce if not remove a lot of the anti-gun stigma we face.

And if any criminal types feel they may have to face an armed person,, OR persons,, (several) they will not want to try their crimes as readily in such places.

Now,, I had to chuckle at Mobuck's reaction & response to the woman who confronted him. While it most likely did NOT change her attitude,, it would have been fun to see.

A similar thing was said somewhere long ago. I can't recall by whom or where. But it was along the lines of where a woman confronted someone accusing them of something because he had a firearm. Saying because he had a gun, there would be crime. His response was along the lines of; "You have female parts, and you have the ability to be a hooker,, are you?"

We as gun owners are very fortunate nowadays that we do have CCW in a LOT more states than we used to have. And we also have Open Carry & Constitutional Carry. We have options. We all can CHOOSE how we carry,, whereas for many decades,, we weren't legally allowed to carry,, or were restricted. The choice of HOW we carry is can be equated to what we carry, & what caliber we prefer etc. Everybody has their own preferences, and whatever works for them is fine with me.

At least now we do have more options,, legally.

there's no place where I feel safer from criminals than when I'm at the gun range.

 

[somorris]

I think in Memphis our crime problem has a lot of contributing factors but open carry is not one of them. Almost every time there is a news report about a shooting and the suspect has been caught, he or she (mostly he) already had a felony charge and was possessing a gun illegally. A lot of legal gun owners are a little careless about securing their guns in their vehicles, but the thugs would get them anyway on the black market. I wish there were no prohibited places so people could keep their firearms with them. Having " prohibited places" is kind of dumb in my humble opinion.

 

[Paul B]

When I first moved to Arizona I learned that open carry was perfectly legal and for a while carried an S&W 4" 686 .357 Magnum. One day my wife and I stopped at a place that sold what was considered some of the best pads for use in a swamp cooler. For those that don'r know what a swamp cooler is. it's just a large box that sits on your roof most of the time as there are window units as well. We had a fairly large home, five bedrooms, so it required two fairly large coolers. As I was telling the guy at the store what I needed in way of pacs, he jumps in and asks, "Why are you wearing a sidearm?" I looked at my wife and said, Because I can!" He then went into an anti-gun diatribe so I asked what would be the price on 8 pads of the size required for my cooler? Came to slightly over $100. I then told hime he'd just lost the sale due to his anti-gun attitude and I also told him I will advise all my shooting buddies at the gun club about his attitude. BTW, at that time while open carry was perfectly legal, if you were riding in a vehicle it was considered by law to be a "concealed carry.

Interesting sign on my local Walmart. Conceal firearm carry is OK, Open carry disturbs our snowbird customers. I've noticed at time when someone open carried in the local WM that some people, mostly somewhat elderly would shy away and head off in another direction at a rapid pace. My guess, a snowbird from the east coast. One time a lady standing in line behind me said, That man over there is wearing a gun." I said back that it was perfectly legal here. She, "well it should be against the law." I said back, "Well it's not." I wonder what she'd have thought if she knew I was carrying a Colt Combat Commander under my untucked in shirt.
Paul B.

 

[Jeepnik]

Here's the thing if open carry is a consideration during a crime it gets counted. If open carry prevents a crime only the would be criminal ever knows.

So statistics regarding open carry and crime are meaningless.

 

[blume357]

Goes with the term "you can't prove a negative". not sure of the true meaning but a lot of speculations are just that. I find it interesting that the public as a whole is uncomfortable with seeing the average citizen armed but they have been condition that it is fine to see a person in uniform armed. The irony as I understand history is when this country was formed it was just the opposite.