Bear protection. Let's stir the pot.

[Short Barrel]

Thank you for the numbers medicdave! The magnum with half the barrel can still outpower the special.

That +p+ number poses another question to myself.. could I handle it well enough to hit what I need too ? I'm sure there are many here who could & one I particular comes to mind.........

MaxP, any chance you would post a link to the video of you & your associates shooting the 454 ? I'll bet everyone here would enjoy it.

Gunzo,I'm a fan of Buffalo Bore ammo but I wouldn't recommend that +P+ load to most shooters.I shot some out of a 4" Redhawk and it is ROUGH!I'm no stranger to heavy recoil as I've shot .454,.475 LB and .500 LB quite a bit out of short barreled,single action revolvers.I could hit well with the BB 340 gr load but it was flat out punishing in the Redhawk and follow up shots wouldn't be very fast.I just decided it was more punishment than my wrist and hand needed.Instead,I'm using the BB 305 gr load,rated at 1325.That load is plenty stout and has blown through deer sized animals out to almost 100 yds-every time,for me.

It's a good,penetrating load and plenty for most shooters to handle.

 

[LuckenbachTexas]

 

[Plain Old Dave]

Somewhere on Youtube is a video of a gent ACCURATELY unleashing six shots of I want to say .454 Casull out of a Ruger SA in just under 4 seconds. The video has a number of people trying the drill and averaging about 5 seconds each. The average shooter just plain can't shoot that accurately or that quickly with a DA revolver, while the fighting gun that was perfected in 1873 is plenty controllable and naturally pointable.

 

[t-reg]

When that bear rolls ya you'll be lucky to even skin your gun, luckier yet to hang onto it and even more lucky to get it pointed in the right direction, much less have a working thumb on the hammer AND a finger on the trigger - which are likely to be slippery by now (4 seconds LOL).....

In the backyard I can manipulate that FT Special pretty doggone fast and "accurately".....

And it could be loaded into Magnum territory.....

BUT (having dealt with large animals all my life and SA revos for nearly 30 years) under the guise of the poll it's a short barrel DA all the way.

 

[Laserbait]

This whole notion of "forgetting to cock the hammer " just doesn't work. I have been earing the hammer back on ALL revolvers for more than 30 years. The Flattop is more ergonomic, more pointable and just an all around more useful gun.

And I never shoot my DA revolver in SA mode. This is why I'd probably forget.

I have 20 DA revolvers, and one SA (a New Model Super Blackhawk, 44 mag). I shoot my GP's, Redhawks, and SRH's at least 2 times a month, and I haven't taken the Super BH out in over 5 years.

But, all of this is for naught, as I am not much of an outdoorsman anyway. I don't hunt, I don't fish too much anymore, and I'll probably never go hiking. But if the ZombieBear apocalypse happens, I'll be keeping my KelTec RFB (or my Marlin 1894), and my 4" 44 Mag Redhawk, with me at all times.

 

[Plain Old Dave]

I have a single six, .32-20 Smith and Wesson, 41 Mag BH, Bisley Vaq .45, and a SAA clone .45. Have had Smith 1917s, M24s, and Colt New Services and shot all sorts of DAs, too. DA revolvers just aren't as accurate or ergonomic as SAs.

 

[5of7]

I must say, I am impressed with you guys.....I would have bet the farm that there would be some name-calling going on before we got to page 5. :lol:

Anyway, I can tell you this about short barrels; I have 2 super RHs in 480 Ruger, one with a 7-1/2" barrel and the other is the Alaskan. With the exact same loads, which feature 365 grain cast bullets and 22 grs of 2400, the 7-1/2 inch gun gives me 1276 average velocity and the Alaskan gives up 1092 fps.

So, the difference is some 184 fps with a barrel 5" shorter.

Now I would agree that there are other factors regarding velocity in revolvers besides barrel length, but I would have expected a greater difference than 184 fps.....wouldn't you?

So, if it was me, I would be carrying the Alaskan. As a handloading proposition, I think it would handle more pressure than the flat top, so there is just no comparison betwinxt the two. 8)

 

[Ale-8(1)]

Seeing as how this is, after all, RugerForum, I'd have to go with a Bearcat.

Loaded with CB caps having expanding bullets to prevent over-penetration that might endanger any innocent moose or other wildlife, from a modified Weaver stance I'd carefully place three rounds into each of the charging bear's eyes, effectively blinding it, then perform a tactical reload with FMJs and go for the kill shot between the eyes.

Nothing to it.

 

[CraigC]

Real men go for a nostril.

 

[CraigC]

It pokes a 44 hole in the animal.

The LBT, with its much larger meplat, blasts a larger hole and the heavier bullet pokes a deeper hole. Pretty simple actually. :roll:

When did a .44 spl 250 gr "Elmer Load" get downgraded to 950 fps?!?

950fps Skeeter or 1450fps Keith .44Mag load, it doesn't matter. The 340gr (or anything similar) is going to be a better load for bear. And you did say "big bears" so I assume we're not talking 200lb blackies.

And IMHO, a 44 mag 340 gr is gonna need an afterburner to reach 1,200 out of a 2.5" barrel.

The Buffalo Bore load has been clocked over 1200fps out of an Alaskan.

 

[buckeyeshooter]

Sorry, neither! I have a 500 Smith & Wesson for this duty.

 

[LuckenbachTexas]

 

[MaxP]

"The LBT, with its much larger meplat, blasts a larger hole and the heavier bullet pokes a deeper hole. Pretty simple actually"

Not really, even the base of the SWC is the same diameter as the MetterFlat. Neither one "Blast" through, they just make hole. Both calibers still work as it makes it easier for authorities to find the bear that killed you.

I like the Bearcat too, wheres the voting button for that.

Actually no. The true "Keith" semi-wadcutter has a much smaller diameter meplat than an LFN and WFN. Yes, they make holes, but in the case of the LBT bullets, they make larger holes.

If the bear does kill you, it won't be for a lack of terminal effectiveness of the handguns being discussed, it'll be for poor shot placement.

 

[maxpress]

Seems from bbti.com that a 240gr mag comes out of a 2.5" barrel at 1000fps and my 250gr loads exit my 4" at the same. Seeing as we have small bears in Washington and I can empty either gun at the same speed it wouldn't matter to me which I had.

 

[CraigC]

"The LBT, with its much larger meplat, blasts a larger hole and the heavier bullet pokes a deeper hole. Pretty simple actually"

Not really, even the base of the SWC is the same diameter as the MetterFlat. Neither one "Blast" through, they just make hole. Both calibers still work as it makes it easier for authorities to find the bear that killed you.

I like the Bearcat too, wheres the voting button for that.

Testing has proven that the shoulder of the Keith bullet does nothing. The meplat is what produces the wound channel. The Keith bullet is a great design and it's the one I use the most of. However, the LBT has a significantly larger meplat and produces a significantly larger wound channel. That is a fact. The 90gr heavier weight of the 340gr is also PROVEN to be a huge factor affecting penetration. I'm sorry, I don't know upon what you base your assessment but it's just flat-out wrong. The fact that you state "either just makes a hole" tells me you really don't know what you're talking about.

 

[Plain Old Dave]

Well, I notice with interest we have one more voter that realizes that selfcocking revolvers aare inherently slower to point and overall clumsier than the perfected fighting gun.

 

[LuckenbachTexas]

8)

 

[Bucks Owin]

Guess I'm in the minority. No surprise, but I actually thought I would be less "lonely"... :?

I expect a determined charge from short range is gonna require a head shot to stop. A cylinderful of hits elsewhere may kill alright but will the bear know it's dead soon enough to keep you from being chewed on some?

Single actions are what feels familiar in my hand, and I am confident I can get one into action just as fast as anybody's snubby. A 5.5" sight radius is enough for a hasty but more accurate shot placement and a hardcast 250 gr SWC going 1200 fps will certainly penetrate any bear skull. Additionally, a Flattop shooting such a load is gonna be more controllable for me than a hellblaster heavy bullet snubby especially, if need be, one handed. (Are there really people out there who need both hands to cock a SA quickly?!?)

So I'll go with the .44 Spl Flattop for this poll.

(In the real world I would be packing a 45 BH shooting a LBT hardcast 325 gr Linebaugh load... :wink: )

 

[MaxP]

I'm talking about the generally .430 diameter of the whole bullet because thats what makes it through, regardless of what the nose is doing. You guys act like the nose of the bullet is wider than the whole bullet, or that the base of the .430 bullet falls away and doesn't follow the nose, or the base somehow squeezes itself into the smaller now entry hole. Again, I respect the flat boys out of a rifle or longer barrel length.

Its all other than optimal.

I've seen some animals (5th Amendment) that didn't even know they had a hole through them with hardcast but the HP got their attention.

So have you actually used LBT bullets on game?

 

[DLM]

Ok, I'll play along. I choose the 44mag Alaskan for this exercise. In reality I choose the 4 5/8" 44 special flat top with a "Skelton" load 95% of the time I am in the field. If I think I need more than the 44 special offers, I want more than the 44 magnum delivers. I go with the 45 colt. Specifically the 4" Redhawk with a 325gr WLN from Buffalo Bore Ammo. If I had to have a 44 magnum, (currently don't own one) I would choose The Lipsey's Exclusive Ruger Bisley 3-3/4" 44 Magnum. aka: "Bisley Alaskan"