Bad roll crimp ??

[GP100man]

Fellers ,I had a surprise when I went to the range last sat. !

My 357 wadcutters would`nt hardly chamber ! Now before ya start with the crude ring thang ,I don`t shoot 38spc. brass in any of my 357s & the chambers were clean enuff to make a chamber casting.

This was W-W brass I bought new & it was on it`s 4th firing(length checked) , all of em with 358091 WC & 3.1 gr. of reddot, just a nice little bullseye load, no hi pressure or anything .

The 1 thing I did change on the binding loading was switch to a seater that had a flat punch for the seating stem & I always roll just a little to insure easy chambering ,but on this die the amount of roll was very touchy to adjust, but it did`nt look like it was bulging the case, just an abrupt turn insted of a slight roll.

Anyways , I think I`ve found a bad seater die . Now that I see it all in type I`m sure of it .
It`s going back to the spares box for an experimental forming die .

Thoughts ,queation, suggestions are still welcome as my mind AIN`t what it used to be OR my eyes for dang shore!

I`m blaming the eyes for not seeing the slight bulge , diagnosis , get some glasses ya can see with !

GP

 

[kodiakisland]

Could be several things. If you crimp too heavy, expecially if you seat and crimp in the same step, it can form a ring in the brass below the crimp. If you bell the case mouths too much, the crimp may not be taking all the bell out of the case. Could be a problem with the die. If you have min spec chambers, it doesn't take much to make the case not fit.

I seat and crimp in seperate steps for my FA revolver. The chambers are too tight for any sloppy reloading. My ruger chambers are all large enough to not worry about it, but I've certainly become a better reloader since getting the FA.

 

[Rick Courtright]

The 1 thing I did change on the binding loading was switch to a seater that had a flat punch for the seating stem & I always roll just a little to insure easy chambering ,but on this die the amount of roll was very touchy to adjust, but it did`nt look like it was bulging the case, just an abrupt turn insted of a slight roll.

Hi, GP

Did I read correctly you're doing the seating and crimping at the same time w/ the seat/crimp die?

If so, a couple of things come to mind. First is case length. If all the cases are within a couple of thousandths or so of each other, you should be able to do that without too much grief. But, depending on your seating/crimping die, it may not take very much variation to cause some problems.

Second is I like to seat in one operation, crimp in a separate one. This helps keep my OAL more consistent, and I don't have to fiddle about getting both the seating and crimping "just right." I'm sure you know how that is sometimes NOT the best job if eyes, or patience, aren't so great!

Now, you can use the same die to do both operations, or go to a separate crimping die. I'm one of the legions of fans of Lee's FCD (Factory Crimp Die), and there are many more fans of Redding's Profile Die out there, too. I'm not really familiar w/ Redding's die, but Lee's gives you a bit more leeway with variance in case length than some seating/crimping dies (including their own, IME.)

The last thing is trimming your cases. This will cause an uproar between the camp that trims and the one that doesn't. I do trim , and find it helps to start with consistent lengths. Once fired brass can show some pretty big differences in case length, but it's less of a problem in the future if they're trimmed then (after resizing.)

Maybe something in there will be helpful?

Rick C

 

[m657]

I've only loaded up WC a few times, and then in batches of 500 or more. Once I got the basics set right, never had any trouble fitting chamber. The slight roll crimp seems to (somehow) been just right for the circumstance, so I can't really help you with procedural exam of your loading process.

For the record, I'm in the 'don't trim straight wall pistol cases' group.

The trouble is trying to get them little suckers to all go in the same hole on the target.

I tried the 'new glasses' theory; it was of limited benefit.
Tried the 'cataract surgery' route----now THAT has made considerable improvement.....I CAN see where the target is.....

 

[arkievol]

I'm one of the legions of fans of Lee's FCD (Factory Crimp Die)

Me too. Been there, done that. FDC should solve your problem.

 

[6gun]

I'm guessing you reloading using Lee dies?

 

[Rick Courtright]

I'm guessing you reloading using Lee dies?

Hi,

Not sure where you're trying to go w/ that comment, but if it's where I suspect, I've "crushed" more cases w/ RCBS dies before I gave up on them than I have w/ Lees! I don't think the OP's problem is "brand dependent."

Rick C

 

[6gun]

I'm guessing you reloading using Lee dies?

Hi,

Not sure where you're trying to go w/ that comment, but if it's where I suspect, I've "crushed" more cases w/ RCBS dies before I gave up on them than I have w/ Lees! I don't think the OP's problem is "brand dependent."

Rick C

Crushing case's is operators error from failure to adjust correctly you have lowered the die way to low and are over crimping if your crushing cases, you can send all those nasty RCBS dies that crush cases to me, they will never crush a single case of mine.

 

[DGW1949]

Gently suggesting that ya need to look closer at where the bullet's crimp-grove is, and then adjust your dies properly.

DGW

 

[Jimbo357mag]

Two things: 1) are you using the same bullets and are they sized the same? and 2) the LEE FCD with a carbide post sizing ring or the Redding Profile Crimp die with it's taper and roll crimp should prevent that buldge problem. ...or just back off on the crimp a little Atlas.

 

[Rick Courtright]

you can send all those nasty RCBS dies that crush cases to me, they will never crush a single case of mine.

Hi,

Sorry, too late with the request! My BIL likes 'em...

Rick C

 

[GP100man]

OK folks here goes, I`m anal about inconsistentcies ,I check lengths each firing , same batch of boolits cast 1k at 1 sitting (a few breaks for bulging discs)& all sized thru a star sizer (ded nutts .358, measured with a mic.)

Well the offending die is an old Lyman AA chromed set, the seater had the 495 (flat) seater stem.
I removed a Lee seater from the mid `80 vintage ,it has seated many,many wadcutters,SWCs & rnfp profile boolits for me with not a hiccup(cleaned when the stem got a bit harder to turn , ya know boolit lube & all)

Took the Lyman down super cleaned it & got my Lee lead hardness tester but too big, took a 3x magnifying glass & a good light & I think I see absolutely no taper! just a square shoulder !!

I`m gonna mill the Lee plug flat instead of the little cup that does`nt fit nuttin & try to machine the Lyman into a forming die for my full cyl length 357 shotshell project.

Or saw the dang thing in 1/2 so I can see what somebody/or Lyman has done to make it useless as a roll crimp seater die & I`ll be done!

Does anyone else deburr their flash holes for handgun ammo !!





Just wished I could shoot good enuff to tell the difference !!!!

Thanks for all the thoughts , I even tried the seat & crimp in seperate steps to see if I was/were doing summtin wrong ,but it`s the die I tell ya. it does the same thing ,binding while chambering

1 thing I did`nt mention in the OP was only 1 round fell in the cyl. (& no it was`nt the 1 I set the die with) it was mid way thru the box (& I measured each 1 after tumblin this time 1 case was .003 short.)
the rest were very consistent in the thumb pressure to chamber em.

I`m starting to ramble enuff for now & I put the Lyman to bed for now !!

GP

 

[6gun]

Yup I deburr my flash holes on my revolver ammo, I'll do anything to give me a edge on better accuracy.

 

[Bucks Owin]

Yep GP, I DO deburr flash holes (after uniforming them!) as well as uniform trims and a log of how many loadings at what pressure level... :wink:

Haven't gotten around to giving each case it's own name yet... :lol:

 

[GP100man]

6gun,Bucks

I`m glad/relieved to see/hear I`m not alone !!

Anyways the few rounds I tried to reload with the Lyman die were still stiff to chamber , after lookin at em under magnification the turn in the roll was so abrubt it bulged em , I could see & measure it .
Ran em thru the Lee to try & hit the bulge on the more tapered roll & got em "fixed" good nuff to fall into the cyl.

 

[Enigma]

Just a suggestion: try a Redding Profile Crimp Die; seat the bullets first with a regular seater die, as all the PCD does is crimp - but it does it very, very well.

 

[Rick Courtright]

Just a suggestion: try a Redding Profile Crimp Die; seat the bullets first with a regular seater die, as all the PCD does is crimp - but it does it very, very well.

Hi,

While I haven't used the Redding die, Weshoot2, who's probably loaded 100 metallic rounds for every one I've done, almost always uses the adjective "superior" when discussing it! He also uses the Lee FCD for certain cartridges, so I figure his comments are well researched!

Rick C

 

[WESHOOT2]

I gotta lotta dies :mrgreen:


I have many dies because a die is tooling, and I try and test different tooling for the jobs at hand, seeking superior results from my testing.

 

[WESHOOT2]

Wiley Clapp turned me on to the Redding......