50-70 Government

[mr surveyor]

I'm doing a search for anything related to loading for the original 50-70 Government. I have an original 1870 Navy Springfield (it was sportsterized at some time long before my Dad brought it home in the early 60's - barrel and forestock cut about 6 inches) in almost pristine condition. At some point in time I will need to find an experienced smith to slug the barrel and verify the overall condition as being "safe" before I invest any serious money into this one.

I've been researching the basic history of this gun for many years and now am seriously thinking about buying a few rounds to test the gun (after I have someone with real experience check it out). I know I can buy loaded rounds, at similar loads to the original government specs, for about $3.00-3.50 per round and still have the brass.

Just wondering if anyone here can share some information on anything related to the 50-70 Government loads.

So many guns.... so little funds.


surv

 

[mr surveyor]

there's no one here with experience loading the 50-70 Gov?

 

[pvtschultz]

I recently found a 50-70 cartridge going through my late father's effects. But that all that I know about the cartridge/rifle.

 

[steve b]

I do remember a magazine test, quite a few yrs ago. They chambered a Contender in 50/70. I do remember being impressed with the performance turned in. I also don't remember the name of the mag ! Sorry. steve b

 

[COR]

Handloader did an article within the past few years...I can't remember which one

 

[Sgt Garcia]

The Remington rolling block is as solid as a bank vault. If the bore is in at least fair condition this will be a fun gun to work with. Yes, have it checked out….if the barrel is good there isn't much else that couldn't be easily repaired on a roller.

I load for a 50-90 Sharps with smokeless powder….your 50-70 should be equally as easy to load for. Starline has new brass. Accurate 5744 is the powder to use, just buy some cast bullets and you're in business. I would slug the bore to determine the correct size cast bullets to buy or cast.


Dennis.

 

[LAH]

We filled a couple orders for some ammo company which loaded 50/70s but I can't recall now who it was.

 

[Enigma]

While I realize that this book deals with black powder loads, it should be useful anyway: http://www.buffaloarms.com/Detail.aspx?PROD=163839&CAT=4150

Th Lyman Cast Bullet Handbook (4th Edition) has smokeless load data for the 50-70 Government, and other 'buffalo' cartridges.

 

[mr surveyor]

Handloader did an article within the past few years...I can't remember which one

you have an excellent memory. I don't subscribe (yet :wink: ) to Handloader Magazine but I have a friend that's a 40+ year reloader with the same memory capacity. I mentioned to him a couple of weeks ago what my new "project" was, and he brought me a handful of magazines to look through. I believe you may be referring to Handloadere No. 268, October 2010. He may not get this copy back

surv

 

[mr surveyor]

so far, I figure I need to slug the barrel to determine the actual bore. From my research, so far, it seems that the 1870 was bored to 0.515 which will most likely result in some leading with the preloaded 0.512 rounds that are currently marketed. Since the lock-up on the gun is rock solid, and the bore is just downright beautiful, and not a speck of rust or corrosion anywhere, I would guess the gun is sound enough for the loads it was originally designed for.... 450 grain bullet over 70 grains BP... although I would feel better at no more than 65 gr. loads.

The extractor was missing when Dad brought this gun home in the early 60's, and in one of my earlier attempts to completely restore it I found an extractor from Numrich they thought might work with proper "fitting". I would think that a hardwood dowell "ramrod" would be more than adequate to use as an extractor temporarliy.

Once I convince myself to spend the $61 per 20 rounds (plus shipping) to test fire the gun, I will be tempted to buy the .515 bullet mold from Lee, as well as neck only sizing dies, and force myself to feel safe handling black powder. I would feel a lot better about persuing this project if I could find a qualified antique firearms smith to give it a once over and make the tiny repairs it could use. I'm currently at a standstill on finding someone within a 3-4 hour drive of NE Texas.

I really appreciate any and all information, corrections, help and/or encouragement y'all have to offer.


surv

 

[Mike Armstrong]

The "Handloader" article was one of Ken Waters' "Pet Loads" column. It is on page 503 of his collected "Pet Loads" volume published by Wolf Publications.

Waters was using a converted Sharps carbine, not as strong as your Remington. He gives both smokeless and black powder loads. Unfortunately the book doesn't list the original article's date and volume number; perhaps Wolf could tell you. Many of their back numbers are available as CDs.

I would ask somebody who is involved in Black Powder Cartridge Silhouette to recommend a gunsmith in Texas. I think they have an association that you could find with an internet search. There are also gunsmiths who specialize in single shot rifles who advertise in the ASSRA Journal and in Rifle Magazine.

Rollers are extremely strong actions. You can't bust the thing with black powder--not enough room in the case. In fact modern cases probably won't really hold a full 70 grs. of any black powder, even 3FG. You may find that the recoil is a handful, tho.

One thing NOT to do. DON'T leave any air space in the case when using black powder. If you back off on the load, fill the empty space with wadding. Too often not filling the case causes a ring bulge in the chamber and makes the gun a wall hanger.

I think you can have a lot of fun with this old gun. If it were mine, I'd get rid of the handguard (meaning put it in a drawer, gently), pull the old forestock and put it away, and make a sporter forend for it that will interchange with the original (in other words don't alter the metal any more than it already is). You might also gently pull the old rear sight and replace it with a no-drill tang rear for added accuracy. But don't do any of this stuff until you have shot it and found that you like to shoot it!

 

[Double Maduro]

mr surveyor,

I have a friend who bought a Sharps Shilo 45/70 when he got back from Iraq. They have a forum section on their website, I would go there and ask for help. They have a section for non sharps rifles I believe.

If nothing else, someone there can poiint you in the right direction.

http://www.shilohrifle.com/

I hope this helps,
DM

 

[Sgt Garcia]

There's been a number of articles on this cartridge, here are a few that were in Handloader
and Rifle magazines: Handloader #147, #26, #129, #142, #81, Rifle #67.

Dennis.

 

[mr surveyor]

Thank you all for the information and encouragement.

I don't expect to end up being the world's leading expert on the 1870 Navy Springfield Rolling Block 50-70, but I figure on being the expert with my personal example :wink:

 

[EDK]

LONE STAR RIFLE company MAKES rolling block clones in various calibers. The owner had an unfortunate fatal accident with another type of firearms, but you might try to contact them.

Mike Venturino wrote SHOOTING BUFFALO RIFLES OF THE OLD WEST, which is a classic guide to the various cartridges. There are also a lot of individual postings over at castboolits and shilohrifle.com/forums that may be of interest.

You might try finding a black powder silhouette competition or a "gong shoot" in your area. Texas seems to have a lot of active black powder competitors and shooters...and the NRA national competitions are held near Raton, New Mexico.

I have shot a 50/90 SHILOH SHARPS at the Quigley shoot in Forsyth Montana since I started going there in 2005. One of my buddies shoots a 50/140 SHARPS at Quigley.