45 ACP ball ammo for all purpose including SD use?

[Mus408]

Before jacketed hollow points 45 ACP has a great history of getting the job done around the
home,in the woods or on the battle field.
My thoughts with this caliber and to simplify...I just load up a proven load in my guns using the 230 gr.
plated ball ammo.
Any thoughts?

 

[gramps]

"They all fall to hardball" is a myth, though because of the Geneva Convention, that is what was used on the battlefield, where it wracked up an impressive history because an .45 ACP is bunches bigger than an .355-.357 projectile. Better projectiles other than FMJ abound. Especially if you reload, your self defense and hunting experience will be enhanced.
gramps

 

[wwb]

Plinking and competition is plated 230 grain round nose...... when it's in the nightstand, it's hot loaded 200 grain XTPs. Different point of impact, but at 10 to 15 feet, it's not worth worrying about.

 

[Bob Wright]

I have some experience with the .45 ACP, little as it is. I had a Colt Gold Cup and developed a load using the Sierra 185 gr. JHC (Jacketed Hollow Cavity) bullet loaded with Accurate powder, the brand and charge escapes me now. But muzzle velocity ran close to 1300 f.p.s. and accuracy was great. Out to about 75 yards crows seemed to "smoke" when hit by this load.

As a matter of fact, I just recently loaded some .45-06 cartridges with the 230 gr. RN FMJ bullet. Haven't had time to try them out yet.

Bob Wright

 

[loaded round]

For those who have used it, 230 gr FMJ ammo does the job for SD. For those who just write about, know nothing. I do agree that a heavy HP will also the job, but the orginal 230 FMJ has been around for 100 years and works. Just ask anyone who has seen the elephant.

 

[mikld]

I have 3, 45 ACP guns. My "Just in Case Ammo" is a 230 gr, FMJ over a classic load of Bullseye for a bit over 850 fps (I keep about a thousand rounds handy "just in case"). This round will feed flawlessly in all 3 guns and I would not feel undergunned at all. This "controversy" boils down to the old "Heavy and slow vs Light and Fast" argument. Both can be right and both can be wrong, and I use both (hot 9mm 125 gr JHP and 45 ACP 230 gr LRN)...

 

[Paul B]

There is a reason why hardball works for self defense. It's worked since 1911. But there are drawbacks to the use of hardball, the major one being over penetration. So you shoot the bad guy and the bullet passes on through taking out an innocent bystander or family member. Not good. When I carry my Colt Combat Commander, it's stoked with Federal's 230 gr. Hydrasoks. For practice I load a 230 gr. cast round nose bullet over 5.0 gr. of Bullseye or 6.0 gr. of W231 to duplicate the Federal round. I know a fellow who I used to E-mail back and forth with who served on one of those river boats in Viet Nam. His self defense handgun is a plain no frill 1911 loaded with, you guessed it hardball ammo. He said it worked in Nam and it'll work today, and tomorrow. He said his gun would hang up with hollow point ammo. I told him that if he wanted, I'd drive to California where he lived and would polish the feed ramp so they wouldn't jam but he declined. Three of my 1911s are custom guns to start with but the Combat Commander is for all practical purposes strictly stock. I replaced the grip safety with a beavertail style as the original will let the hammer eat holes in the web of your hand. Not fun to run a fast string and see blood coming from the top of the web. I have the scar to prove it. The second mod is I polished the throat and feed ramp and now it feeds just about everything I run from 185 cast wadcutters to full blown hardball. It will even sometimes chamber empty brass. I bought it second hand and whoever had it before me must have done a trigger job as it's pretty nice. There is only one more thing I'll do do it and that's get a decent set of sights put on the gun. The stock sights are so small my 80+ year old eyes have trouble using them.
Paul B.

 

[loaded round]

I hear you and agree with you about the polishing. Last fall I finally broke down and ordered and ordered a Nighthawk Custom 1911 with WHAT I wanted on it. This pistol eats everythine and gives me 1'' groups at 25 yds. as well.

 

[Rick Courtright]

For those who have used it, 230 gr FMJ ammo does the job for SD. For those who just write about, know nothing. I do agree that a heavy HP will also the job, but the orginal 230 FMJ has been around for 100 years and works. Just ask anyone who has seen the elephant.

Hi,

Ever notice how the keyboard experts belittle most any round fired from a weapon the average sized guy can handle, saying it has no stopping power, etc., but not a single one will stand out there and take even a .22 short or .25 ACP to the chest to prove their point?

Of course, the "real" experts on the .45 ACP are those who will tell you with a straight faced that even a hit to the big toe with a .45 ACP will kill a BG faster than flipping off a light switch! (Where's one of Pat in CO's big facepalm posters when we need it?)

Rick C

 

[Paul B]

"Ever notice how the keyboard experts belittle most any round fired from a weapon the average sized guy can handle, saying it has no stopping power, etc., but not a single one will stand out there and take even a .22 short or .25 ACP to the chest to prove their point?

Of course, the "real" experts on the .45 ACP are those who will tell you with a straight faced that even a hit to the big toe with a .45 ACP will kill a BG faster than flipping off a light switch! (Where's one of Pat in CO's big facepalm posters when we need it?)"

Well, Elmer Keith one wrote that, "A man who took a hit from a .25 ACO would be in need of some immediate surgery." Somehow I think it would be the same from a .22 short. :lol:

On the .45 ACP, I once knew aa old retired deputy sheriff when I lived in Nevada. I loaded up some special reloads for him. We'd been talking and the .45 ACP came up. He said he's been shot twice over the years with the .45 ACP and he never went down at the hit. Back then all that was available was either hardball or cast bullets. None of this fancy stuff you can buy. He said one hit him in the hip and it did stagger him some and the other in the shoulder. He said that both times he was able to make the bad guy into a good guy. :roll: That was how he put it. He was probably in his mid 70's when I knew him and that was around 1979. He was an interesting gentleman to talk with. I think I more listened than talked though :shock:
Paul B.

 

[GunnyGene]

Of course, the issue weapon in the 1940s to our guys was the Colt 1911 firing hardball. - DixieBoy

It was also the issue weapon for USMC SNCO's and Officers until at least 1983. Take a close look at my avatar and tell me what weapons are pictured there. :lol:

 

[powder smoke]

Shot placement rules! A good shot with any 45 acp round is a man stopper!
Especially close quaters go for the forehead lights out! ps

 

[protoolman]

Well hardball in .45 is pretty decent for defensive use and hollow point is excellent. Is pretty good enough for you?

 

[mikld]

FWIW; my "Just in Case" ammo is a 230 gr. FMJ over a hefty (classic) load of Bullseye, giving me about 850 fps from my 1911. I certainly do not feel under gunned with this load. The discussions about Self Defense loads will never reach a consensus as 90% are conjecture and opinion, with very few, if any, "good guys" telling their experiences shooting "bad guys" with a 45 ACP handgun using "Ball" ammo, with a lot of theory and a few quotes from "experts"...

 

[Paul B]

FWIW; my "Just in Case" ammo is a 230 gr. FMJ over a hefty (classic) load of Bullseye, giving me about 850 fps from my 1911. I certainly do not feel under gunned with this load. The discussions about Self Defense loads will never reach a consensus as 90% are conjecture and opinion, with very few, if any, "good guys" telling their experiences shooting "bad guys" with a 45 ACP handgun using "Ball" ammo, with a lot of theory and a few quotes from "experts"...

The original load for the .45 ACP was and AFAIK still is 5.0gr. Bullseye and the 230 gr. full metal jacket bullet AKA the hardball round. I had one full and one partial box of 1917 Frankford Arsenal issue .45 ACP ball ammo. I still have the full box of 20 rounds. Says right the box loaded with Bullseye powder. I broke down a few from the partial box and they were 5.0 of what definitely looked like bullseye. I shot off the rest of that partial box and they all went bang with no apparent loss of power compared to current issue GI hardball. Then came the fun of cleaning the pistol as that ammo is highly corrosive. Another interesting tidbit is the primer is not the standard size large pistol primer. It's a bit smaller but still larger than small pistol primers. I guess back then Uncle Sam didn't want us reloading the .45 ACP, as least not with GI issue brass. I've never seen commercial .45 ACP ammo from that time frame so don't know if they used a standard primer like today or went with the oddball in the middle primer.
Paul B.

 

[jgt]

Are you sure the primer pockets were not crimped and needed to be swaged or cut to open them up to take a standard large pistol primer? Most military brass has to have that done to the primer pocket to be reloaded.

 

[Paul B]

Are you sure the primer pockets were not crimped and needed to be swaged or cut to open them up to take a standard large pistol primer? Most military brass has to have that done to the primer pocket to be reloaded.

I am 100 percent totally sure that the early primers for the .45 ACP were of an oddball size. Let me quote the following from the book, PRINCIPLES AND PRACTICE OF LOADING AMMUNTION by Earl Naramore circa 1954.

"What is written here applies mainly to the Cal.45 A.C.P, primer pocket but the same principles could be applied tp any other cartridge case in which a change of primer size my be necessary as, for example in adapting European cases to use American primers. There are three diameters of primers in current use (consider the time frame this was written) here in the U.S. The nominal diameters of these primers is .210 inch, which represents the large size commercial primers for the larger rifle and pistol cartridges, .175 inch, which is the small size of commercial primers, and .204 inch, which is the odd size of primer MADE ONLY FOR THE MILITARY CAL. .45 PISTOL AMMUNITION BY THR GOVERNMENT AN ALSO FOR SOME GOVERNMENT CONTRACTS. (emphasis mine) Consequently these cases made only for the .204 inch primer can only be reloaded with primers obtained from the Ordnance Department, through the Director of Civilian Marksmanship. As these primers are not always available for sale and obtaining them involves delays and more or less red tape. many shooters prefer to enlarge the pockets of their .45 A.C.P. cases so that they can use commercial pistol primers of .210 inch diameter.

Thus endeth the lesson. :mrgreen:

Needless to say, that size prime has been obsolete for many years. Probably any brass one might have on had, especially from early on WW2 should just consider them interesting collector itims.
Paul B.