NEW SP101 W/CANTED BARREL

reciently purchased a new sp101 357 4" i have been wanting for a long time. while fondeling i noticed that the barrel and sight were not clocked at 12 oclock. the sight was slightly tilted to the right. went to the range, it was shooting 3" left at 30 ft. no surprise. i could get it to shoot target center by moving the rear sight to the right as far as it would go. not acceptable. called ruger cs, they were very helpful, told me to box it up and that ups would pick it up tomorrow. that was fri. 20 jan. it arrived at ruger tue. 24 jan. it was repaired and sent back to me arriving tue. 31 jan. from my hand and back to my hand in 11 days. the gun now shoots perfect and i am very happy with my new toy, and rugers great service and quick turn around, thanks to rugers cs and repair service. ihope they get em straight befor they send out any more.

It's great that Ruger has exceptional customer service, but it's pretty pathetic that so many Ruger owners (including myself) have had to find out first hand. There is no excuse for these kind of mistakes to be leaving the factory. Every single Ruger handgun is shipped with a fired case, proving that it was "test fired" at the factory. How come these mistakes aren't being caught? Is it really that hard to take an extra minute and inspect each gun before they test fire it?

I suppose you paid in the neighborhood of $500 for the new SP101. For that kind of money they need to get it right. The first time. Period.

"Excellent customer service" cannot continue to be a Band-Aid for horrible quality control and poor workmanship.

I realize that this isn't just a Ruger problem, but there seem to be a lot of these stories out there lately.

Occassionaly encountering a "canted" barrel on a firearm has always been amoungst us, even during the era of hand-fitted and individualy-numbered parts. That said though, I've seen many more of them lately than I did say, 10-15 years ago...and certainly more than I saw 25-30 years ago.
Me thinks that the advent of CNC machinery has ushered-in the mindset of "process" over "craftmanship". That, and it's more profitable to sling a lot of product out the door and let one's warranty department fix whatever details that the production people let slip by if/when there's a consumer complaint. Then there's the whole "lean manufacturing" thing to consider too....which initself is a manufacturing theory based on the idea that when defects do occour, that they should be addressed through seking a better "process" than through "personal accountability" of the worker. In other words, if the barrel aint clocked right, it's not the worker's fault. After all, assembly line workers has quotas to maintane and it's the machine's fault that the threads weren't timed right, not his. All he does is clamp the part into place and push the button. By the time that a batch of barrels gets to the guy who actualy screws them into the frames, how one particular barrel fits onto a particular frame is already a done deal. Plus or minus a few degrees from TDC don't matter on a production floor, even if it happens to get noticed. Production quota's rule, for that's how the bosses get their bonuses. That's why most of the truly skilled workers are usualy found in a manufacturer's repair department.

BTW, none of the above is limited to just Ruger. It's how most-all modern manufacturing is done these days. You can thank the Japanese for that. Lean Sigma is a gift from them to us.

DGW

Doesn't anybody inspect a gun before paying for it???

CraigC said:

Doesn't anybody inspect a gun before paying for it???

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I'm sorry, but when you're buying a BRAND NEW gun, you shouldn't have to check it out like you would a used gun. It's BRAND NEW!!!! If it's not flawless it should have never made its way to the gun shop that's selling it.

Unfortunately, two bad experiences (both with Rugers) have taught me that I DO need to check out new guns before I buy them. It's absolutely ridiculous to have to ship a brand new gun back to the factory because they couldn't get it right the first time.

How often does this happen? I'd like to think that is less than 1 time out of 100, but it's happened TWICE to me, and I've purchased far less than 200 new Rugers. I've had far better luck buying used Rugers than new ones.

CraigC said:

Doesn't anybody inspect a gun before paying for it???

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A lot of purchases are made online ie; GB, AA, etc and it's next to impossible to discern that type of defect in a picture, even if you're able to get one with the right angle.

rdf009 said:

I'm sorry, but when you're buying a BRAND NEW gun, you shouldn't have to check it out like you would a used gun.

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In a perfect world that would be true but unfortunately that's not the reality we live in. I NEVER assume a gun is perfect just because it is new. No matter when it was made or by whom. Seen way too many that aren't.

MOUNTAIN WILLIAM said:

A lot of purchases are made online...

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Then you carefully inspect it before doing your transfer and taking it home. If it has an issue, send it back on the spot. You are in no way obligated to keep a defective firearm but once the transfer is done, it's yours.

A few years ago I bought a Remington cap n ball reproduction. Can't recall if it was Uberti or Pietta. Only after I got it home and cleaned off all the packing grease did I notice that the front sight was canted to the right, and so were the flats of the octagonal barrel. I almost tried to fix it myself but then I thought, "No way! This is a brand new gun and it isn't right." So I drove back the 30 miles to return it. Finally got my money back after arguing with the sales person who insisted it was made that way to zero it! Yeah, right! It would've shot 12 inches to the left at 25 yards.

RDF009: Ruger makes a great product and offers excellent customer service. They are famous for fixing anything wrong with their guns. To keep their prices competitive they (and practically every other gun manufacturer) they just cannot afford to give every gun a full inspection before it leaves the plant. They make sure they don't blow up when you shoot it and that no parts fall off when you shake it. That's why they offer such good customer service -- which they pay for. They make everything right -- at their cost.

I sent them a used 1978 Speed Six that was jumping chambers (I even told them it was used). They changed every spring and plunger and put in a whole new trigger group, then sent it back 2nd day air -- all for free.

If you want 100% perfection going out the door -- they won't cost $500 anymore.

The turn around time on my new Super Blackhawk .44 was pretty darn good too. The FIRST time. It's currently back at Ruger again. I too had just enough sight adjustment to correct the canted barrel. IF you only want to shoot 30 ft. I was told they wouldn't re-barrel or otherwise correct the problem unless they considered it to be excessive or detrimental to performance. Shooting 3" left at close range isn't acceptable to me for a hunting arm. A noise maker or paper weight maybe,not a hunting rig. I don't expect a quick turn around this time. I'm sure I'll be spanked for sending it back a second time. Oh I'll buy more of them. But by god they better figure on making them right for $600.00 a clip. As was mentioned,I'll be more careful at the gun counter too. I just didn'y know I was supposed to check the barrel/sight alignment when buying a Ruger. The old "let the buyer beware holds true even with American made handguns.

Ashlander said:

RDF009: Ruger makes a great product and offers excellent customer service. They are famous for fixing anything wrong with their guns. To keep their prices competitive they (and practically every other gun manufacturer) they just cannot afford to give every gun a full inspection before it leaves the plant. They make sure they don't blow up when you shoot it and that no parts fall off when you shake it. That's why they offer such good customer service -- which they pay for. They make everything right -- at their cost.

I sent them a used 1978 Speed Six that was jumping chambers (I even told them it was used). They changed every spring and plunger and put in a whole new trigger group, then sent it back 2nd day air -- all for free.

If you want 100% perfection going out the door -- they won't cost $500 anymore.

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So let me get this straight.....Ruger can't afford to inspect their own products, but they somehow CAN afford to rebuild those products for FREE once they turn out to be junk? How does that make sense? You say they are already taking the time to make sure their guns don't blow up and no parts fall off, so why can't that same person take an extra two minutes to make sure the barrel is straight and the cylinder locks up the way it should? Is he seriously running on that tight of a schedule?

Why is there always some one who actually defends Ruger when their horrible quality control is brought up? There is no excuse for selling products that don't work.

There is no excuse for it, whatsoever. However, a barrel that's screwed on too much or too little does not make a gun junk. Ruger doesn't produce junk. All you have to do is be a little proactive when buying. Which is how EVERYBODY should be with EVERYTHING. We no longer live in a world of handcrafted goodness. That said, I've bought and sold nearly three dozen Rugers in the last 20yrs and have only had to send back one. That is because it was a Bearcat I got for my birthday and thus, was not able to inspect it before purchasing.

CraigC,

I agree with you. I have more Rugers than any other brand of guns, except maybe Winchesters, and they certainly aren't junk. And it looks like these quality control issues are just something we're gonna have to deal with. But I'm still gonna complain about them when I see them.

The only way Ruger is gonna make it right is to make them and make them pay for shipping. If they get enough guns returned on their dime, they will take steps to prevent the issue.

CraigC said:

The only way Ruger is gonna make it right is to make them and make them pay for shipping. If they get enough guns returned on their dime, they will take steps to prevent the issue.

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+1 Yep! :wink:

RDF009: You ask how it makes sense to fix guns rather than inspect them (of course, your question all but assumes Ruger management is entirely stupid). I spent a career working with a national manufacturing company -- and even after 25 years it is hard to grasp the magnitude of the scale of manufacturing processes involved nowadays. If the defect rate is low -- as we would expect -- the cost of fixing the defects and shipping would be vastly less than having to individually inspect each and every gun. Such full inspection would only be cost effective is the defect rate was high (and it's not). As above, the consumer would pay the costs of all this.

By the way, in my first response to you I tried to be pleasant -- your response was anything but. You could have made the same points in a much more positive way -- you might want to try that in the future -- unless you just like to sound miserably negative.

Ashlander,
Lighten up a little, I wasn't trying to step on your toes.

I think that the defect rate, however, is a little bit higher than you think it is. Two of the last three NIB Ruger revolvers that I bought had serious issues. One was so serious that it wasn't safe to shoot......the cylinder latch was installed wrong, which allowed the cylinder to turn while firing. These kind of stories are all over out there. Not just with Ruger, but with other gun companies as well. The reason myself and others come down on Ruger so hard is because Ruger's reputation is pretty good. They are known for producing high quality guns at a fair price. We don't expect these kind of problems from them. The fact that they fix their mistakes is little consolation.

RDF009: I appreciate your much more positive tone -- it made me feel much more positive toward your position on the issue.

On the issue: based on my understanding of modern manufacturing processes and how they are managed (I am retired now from a Fortune 50 company), if defects tend to be related to just a single aspect or two in the making of a particular model, then the mangagement reaction would be to adjust or revamp the processes relating to those aspects. If defects are spread fairly randomly through the various parts and processes, then, as I said before, it comes down to pure cost balancing. Detailed individual inspection would be fairly expensive - 10 or 15 minutes of inspection of each gun (whether at the end or spread out at each step of processing) would not only entail additional labor costs, but would slow down the entire operation in a big way -- we are talking about hundreds of guns per day (per shift?) -- or more. When you factor in overhead and other fixed costs, the cost per unit go up quite a bit if the number of units out the door slows down.

For example, assume a model is in high demand, if they make 100 per day, then they can sell 100 per day -- but if they can boost that to 125 per day -- then they can sell all of those as well. The fixed costs per unit goes down by that much.

Unfortunately, all of that leads to your concern -- that consumers become the quality assurance department. You and many others do not like being enlisted into the process of making a decent gun. But to Ruger"s credit (and Taurus, and S&W, and Kahr, and Beretta, and, and...) they take care of the products as painlessly as possible.

I have gotten used to it as just being how it works when you have dozens of employees making thousands of units using largely computerized and automated processes. Oh well.

Cordially,

Ash

The other thing to factor in is how many people out there would have never noticed the barrel being canted?

Regardless of CNC processes and such, the barrel is still most likely screwed on by HAND by an individual person or two. I'm pickier than most people about things lining up, but some of the Rugers I've seen lately anyone could tell the front sight was not lined up. Whoever's doin' the screwin' should learn to do it right!