SR 1911 commander shooting low

Put it on paper today from a rest with my wrists loose, then standing position at 7 yards. 230 grain Hornady's were 1 1/2" low and 200 SWC's were 2 1/2 " low, groups were nice and tight ( should be at that distance). I guessing a shorter sight is needed. Has anyone else changed to a shorter sight for this reason?

Also thinking about a fiber optic front sight......

Any help appreciated,

Barbarosa

I thought mine shot low as well until I let someone else shoot it. Also at 7 yards is way too close to tell if its your sights or the person shoot it some more a lot more get real familiar with it then decide if it is still shooting low. After I got famaliar mine poi magically centered. Good luck have and don't get discouraged

I know Springfields sights are set for 50 yards.

1.5 inches is really neither here nor there. The lighting changes how you see the sights, and the next time it might be on the money or even an inch high.

The Hi-Power shooter's rule of thumb: Sun comes up, sights go up. Sun goes down, sights go down.

Even if somebody else shoots the gun and the POI is right...it doesn't matter. Two sets of eyes is two different sight pictures. What matters is where it shoots for you consistently.

That said...

US Army specs for the 1911/1911A1 dictated a 50-yard zero with issue ball ammunition. (230/830 +/- 25fps) Remember that this was a fighting pistol, not a target pistol. The Army Ordnance zero specs enabled a soldier to hit a man from arm's length out to 75 yards with a center hold.

With ordnance sights and ball ammunition, a 50-yard zero places the shots 2 inches high at 25 yards, which means that at 7 yards, the bullet is still rising. 1.5 inches low just might be where it's supposed to be, though all this may not hold completely true with the Commander's shorter sight radius. I've never targeted a USGI pistol nor a Commander at 7 yards, so I don't know how it would play out.

Sandbag it a 25 yards with the bags under your wrists...not touching the butt of the gun and see.

With 200 gr SWC , my Commander shoots POA at 10 yds and maybe just a tad low at 20. Also I can tell , it groups maybe slightly to the right ... not enough to cause me concern. I figure a paper plate is in harms way from 0 to 25 yds.

regards , brushunter

Barbarosa said:

I guessing a shorter sight is needed. Has anyone else changed to a shorter sight for this reason?

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. . . and people have been complaining about SR1911 front sights shortening themselves. :twisted: :roll:

Precision32 said:

I know Springfields sights are set for 50 yards.

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Huh ?

Mine haven't been .... Or any other Springfields I've shot. That would pretty much mean that the sights are coming from the factory set for a distance that 99% of 1911 shooters never shoot at. That would just lead to hundreds of returned guns.

Where did you see that ?

REV

I have shot handguns for over forty years, my Sigs and my Baer do not have this characteristic of shooting low. it is not how I hold it nor is it low light or bright light. The gun also shoots the same amount low at 50 feet.

Also talked to four not so helpful employees at Ruger, "we do not modify guns" that is what it is called if they ship out a sight that is not std on the gun, they could not even tell me the height of the sites sold on their site.

Ruger is now for sale....".

Huh , well ok then. Problem solved. Not trying to be a smart a.. , but the Sig and Baer are in a different league. The Ruger is a very nice firearm for the money spent. I agree the thing should shoot .. but with fixed sights , all may be different , as far as POA and impact point. Mostly ya find a load that works well with the sights and the distance being shot and go from there.

brushunter

Mine haven't been .... Or any other Springfields I've shot. That would pretty much mean that the sights are coming from the factory set for a distance that 99% of 1911 shooters never shoot at. That would just lead to hundreds of returned guns.

Where did you see that ?

Click to expand...

US Army specs for the 1911/1911A1 dictated a 50-yard zero with issue ball ammunition. (230/830 +/- 25fps) Remember that this was a fighting pistol, not a target pistol. The Army Ordnance zero specs enabled a soldier to hit a man from arm's length out to 75 yards with a center hold.

A 50-yard zero would place the 25-yard group center at around 2 inches high, which is exactly where my early Springfield 1911-A1 shoots.

40+ year old US Army specs and current (post 1984) Springfield Armory consumer 1911 specs are two different animals, especially since the current Springfield company is not the same as the Springfield Co that supplied 1911's to the US Army. They've been privately owned since 1974, and a totally different and distinct company. The only thing the current SA Co. has in common with the original SA is the name, which they bought the copyright for.

I will check tomorrow to find out at what range their current 1911's with fixed sights are registered for.

REV

revhigh said:

Where did you see that ?

REV

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I got that information from a very pleasant lady at Springfield when I call to complain my Springer shot low. She told me to shoot it at 50 yards and tell them how much too low it shot. They would take it from there.

Precision32 said:

revhigh said:

Where did you see that ?

REV

Click to expand...

I got that information from a very pleasant lady at Springfield when I call to complain my Springer shot low. She told me to shoot it at 50 yards and tell them how much too low it shot. They would take it from there.

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Springfield's owners manual states they are 6:00 hold @ 25 yards.

40+ year old US Army specs and current (post 1984) Springfield Armory consumer 1911 specs are two different animals,

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But the sights were the same geometrically and dimensionally...as are the sights on the GI Mil-Spec. On the others, I never bothered to run a ratio to see if they theoretically zeroed the same...but the early 1991A1 Colts that I bought back in the day zeroed at 50 yards...believe it or not...and that puts it around 2 inches high at 25.

especially since the current Springfield company is not the same as the Springfield Co that supplied 1911's to the US Army. They've been privately owned since 1974, and a totally different and distinct company.

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They were never the same outfit, other than in name. The Geneseo-based Springfield was created...not bought...when the real one closed its doors. The Massachusetts-based Springfield Arsenal made muskets for George Washington and company.

Springfield's owners manual states they are 6:00 hold @ 25 yards.

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And there ya go. A 6 O'Clock hold on a 4-inch bull that finds a center POI is zeroed at 50 yards...like it or not/believe it or not... assuming that the barrel tilt at the rear is to spec.

If a 5-inch 1911 copy or variant with fixed sights doesn't zero at 50 yards...somethin' is all fugasi...either the sights or the vertical barrel engagement.

But, I've only been dancin' with Johnny's Toy for about 50 years...so what would I know?

Anyhoo...back to the low shootin' Commander.

Because of the shorter sight radius and slightly greater degree of barrel tilt, it's no surprise that it shoots low at 21 feet. At that point...even assuming a 25-yard zero...the bullet is on the rise and hasn't yet reached the first intersection with the line of sight. They all zero twice. Once when the bullet is on the rise, and the second time at distance, after the bullet has dropped from its mid-range trajectory...or its highest point within the arc of its trajectory with a given zero distance. Sometimes referred to a "Maximum Point Blank Range" it describes a theoretical zero in which the bullet neither rises nor falls outside of an 8-inch circle with a center hold. The US military calls it the "Battlesight" zero.

1911Tuner said:

. . . At that point...even assuming a 25-yard zero...the bullet is on the rise and hasn't yet reached the first intersection with the line of sight. . .

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"On the rise" from a difference of about .6" between center of bore and line of sight? Well, yes, but it doesn't account for the 1 1/2" to 2 1/2" low the OP is complaining about.

As hard as this might be for some to accept, everyone doesn't see the sights the same and even those who do don't always shoot the same. I have quite a few handguns (including an SR1911) and all shoot pretty much to an intended POI if I'm paying attention and have become comfortable with the personality of the gun.

BTW, a 45 ACP with 230 gr bullet (with line of sight .6" above the bore line) sighted in for 50 yards never rises more than 1.6" above the line of sight nor less than .6" below the line of site.

There aren't an awful lot of shooters where this trajectory curve is even recognizable between point blank and 50 yards.

revhigh said:

Precision32 said:

I know Springfields sights are set for 50 yards.

Click to expand...

Huh ?

Mine haven't been .... Or any other Springfields I've shot. That would pretty much mean that the sights are coming from the factory set for a distance that 99% of 1911 shooters never shoot at. That would just lead to hundreds of returned guns.

Where did you see that ?

REV

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Right on Lee. Regarding the Springfield Loaded I recently sold, I KNOW they weren't set a 50 yards. That was one of the more accurate guns I've owned...

Needing something for carry, the Sig C3 proved to be a little better for that purpose. Every bit as accurate as my Springer.

Barbarosa said:

I have shot handguns for over forty years, my Sigs and my Baer do not have this characteristic of shooting low. it is not how I hold it nor is it low light or bright light. The gun also shoots the same amount low at 50 feet.

Also talked to four not so helpful employees at Ruger, "we do not modify guns" that is what it is called if they ship out a sight that is not std on the gun, they could not even tell me the height of the sites sold on their site.

Ruger is now for sale....".

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Sadly, your customer service experience reflects my own with this company. However, instead of trying to find a solution to my issue, they tried to sell me a product. (They wouldn't service my MKII KMK678GC Slab Side stainless target) Instead they tried to upsell me to a MKIII. This was several years ago. And earlier this year I DID end up purchasing a MKIII 22/45. It's an outstanding gun with 5.5 inch bull barrel.

The choice to sell your Ruger is purely yours, and yours alone. I traded my SR1911 off for a CZ. I really like my Rugers, don't get me wrong. AND from what I've heard, their customer service has gotten a LOT better since my dealings with them. Or at least that seems to be the general consensus here...

I mainly own Ruger revolvers, rifles and rim-fires. Though about getting one of their Red label shotguns...

Keep up the good work and thank you Ruger for your ever improving products!

"And there ya go. A 6 O'Clock hold on a 4-inch bull that finds a center POI is zeroed at 50 yards...like it or not/believe it or not... assuming that the barrel tilt at the rear is to spec."



Just for the sake of discussion 1911tuner ... What target are you using that has a 4 inch bullseye. I don't use official targets when I shoot, so I just use a 3/4 inch dot, and all my Springfields and Colts are dead on at 50 feet and 25 yards. As shown below as shot from a Springfield GI model that's been lightly customized. The target below was shot at 50 feet, and as you can see ... Even with stock Springfield GI sights, it is dead on. The orange is what is left of a 3/4 inch dot.




REV

Perhaps this snapshot can help clear up the misunderstanding some may have about the distance at which a 45 ACP is sighted in. Chart represents the trajectory of a 230 gr FMJ bullet fired from a five-inch barrel with a line of sight .6" above the bore center. Studying this for a few minutes should take the mystery and the magic out of the discussion.

The SR1911 comes with a three-dot sight setup. These are combat sights. I have similar on my three Beretta 92 FSs and my CZ 75B. A dead-on hold for me is aligning the three dots and laying the center dot right on top of the intended POI. This works perfectly for me from point blank to beyond 60 yards in USPSA and IDPA matches.

If you're accustomed to setting the intended POI on top of the front post, your real POI will be low. At least that's my experience.

LOL ... Just for the pic .... 1911's always look better with the hammer back, and I left the mag in to show how nicely it's contours match the mag well.

I know what you mean though ... Point taken ....

REV