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 Post subject: New Vaquero Timing Issue
PostPosted: Sat Jul 13, 2013 11:58 am 
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Single-Sixer
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I picked up a NIB .357 New Vaquero recently and have a concern about the timing. When you cock it really slooooow the hammer reaches cock before the cylinder latch (bolt) drops into the notch in the cylinder. This happens on four of the six chambers. The timing is only off a smidgen, maybe half a smidgen. When you cock it normally everything locks up as it should. My concern is that if the timing is like this now what will it be like down the road after the parts wear. Would a new pawl or pawl plunger/spring correct the issue? Many Thanks!

Best Regards,
ADP3


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 13, 2013 12:06 pm 
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I'm not an expert but I've always heard that's the way it is supposed to be. The centrifugal force will carry the cylinder around to lock-up every time unless you drag the cylinder. There is also usually a little travel left in the hammer to carry the cylinder to lock-up. :D

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PostPosted: Sat Jul 13, 2013 12:23 pm 
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Hawkeye
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No, the cylinder is 'supposed' to lock before or just as the hammer reaches full cock. However, under normal operation, it's not really a big deal if it's a tad late.

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PostPosted: Sat Jul 13, 2013 1:16 pm 
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Buckeye

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I had a similar concern with a BH .45. The timing was fine but the pawl was sticking into the cylinder window just a smidgen too far and it made installing the cylinder a real pain. Everything had to be lined up exactly before the cylinder would go into place and if not the base pin would wedge in it and get stuck. A new pawl cured it and it now acts normal.
That said, the way the NV`s are made the pawl drops clear out of the way when the loading gate is opened.
All of this is not exactly what you asked about but to show that as the pawl IS a casting they can run different in size just enough that there can be an issue. This should be caught in QC but the QC tech must not remove and re install the cylinder on inspection. Try a new pawl,it may just do the trick like mine did.


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 13, 2013 2:58 pm 
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Howdy

As CraigC says, in a perfect world, the cylinder is supposed to lock up at the same instant that the hammer reaches full cock. Practically speaking though, with just about every single action revolver I own, and I own quite a few of them, the bolt pops up and locks the cylinder in place just a tiny bit after the hammer goes to full cock. This is to be expected with a production revolver that has not been hand fitted, and Rugers are not hand fitted to that extent. If they were they would cost a lot more.

What you don't want is the cylinder to lock up before the hammer goes to full cock. If this happens, you may never be able to cock it. When the hammer is going back, the hand is rising. When the cylinder locks, the tip of the hand will jam against the ratchet teeth at the rear of the cylinder and will not be able to rise any further. This can jam the hammer and prevent it from going back any further. Practically speaking there is usually enough slop in the hole in the hammer where the hand pivots that the hammer will be able rotoate back just a tad more so it can go to full cock, even if the cylinder is locked.

I do have one 'original model' Vaquero that has a 'slightly long' hand. When I bought it, the cylinder locked at exactly the same instant that the hammer went to full cock. All the slop was taken up. When I installed a Power Custom half cock hammer in that gun, the new hammer was just different enough from the original hammer that the gun would no longer go to full cock. The cylinder locked up, and the hammer could not quite go back far enough to go to full cock. I removed a teeny bit of metal from the tip of the hand with just a few strokes of a file. Then, the hammer was able to go to full cock again at the exact same instant that the cylinder locked.

That is the only single action revolver I own that does that.

Usually, it is not a big deal if the cylinder locks a teeny bit after the hammer goes to full cock. Most single action revolvers have a bit of over travel at the hammer. You don't have to rely on momentum at all, you can cock the gun as slowly as you want. Just give it a firm stroke and pull the hammer back until it stops of its own accord. Most likely, the cylinder will be locked in place.

Try it and see.


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 13, 2013 8:10 pm 
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DJ,
Thanks for the input but the issue is that if the hammer is cocked slowly the cylinder latch does not engage and lock the cylinder after the hammer reaches full cock. The hammer is cocked but the cylinder is not locked. Cocking in a normal fashion creates enough momentum for the cylinder to reach lock before the hammer reaches full cock. My concern is that once the parts wear this behavior will cause problems. If a pawl or pawl plunger/spring will correct the issue then I'd rather just replace them myself instead of returning the gun to Ruger. Tomorrow I'll take down another of my New Vaqueros and switch pawls and pawl plungers/springs and see if that has any effect.

Best Regards,
ADP3

Best Regards,
ADP3


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 14, 2013 11:05 am 
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Buckeye

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Quote:

Single-Sixer


Joined: Sun Dec 23, 2001 3:01 am
Posts: 391
Location: SC DJ,
Thanks for the input but the issue is that if the hammer is cocked slowly the cylinder latch does not engage and lock the cylinder after the hammer reaches full cock.


Mine do the same. If you impede the momentum of the cylinder the hammer will lock into place before the cylinder does. Whether intended to do so I cannot say, nor do I believe that I have been shooting broken guns all this time ;-)


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 14, 2013 12:26 pm 
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Most factory guns have enough hammer overtravel that this is not an issue. If you had it tuned and a hammer stop installed, the `smith would also need to correct the timing. As is, I wouldn't worry about it.

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 15, 2013 4:31 am 
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Joined: Fri Apr 03, 2009 7:01 pm
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ADP3,

If you cock the hammer very slow, and you can continue pulling the hammer far enough back for the cylinder to properly latch, it's OK. Don't worry about wear, it'll take many years of shooting before the effects of wear can be observed.

But I don't like my guns to operate like yours, the pawl is slightly too short and it's just too easy to fix, not to fix it. The old time Gunsmiths would usually "stretch" the pawl. New ones usually want to sell you a new pawl. If you can manage taking the gun apart you can stretch the pawl yourself. I can send you videos on dis-assembly and assembly if you need them.

Remove the pawl and lay it flat on a heavy steel surface; the anvil part of a vise for example, if you have a vise. Give it a smack in the middle below the two teeth with a hammer or a large flat tipped punch and hammer. This will stretch it. One or two whacks and try it in the gun. It doesn't take much at all to fix your problem! You have nothing to lose by trying this because you can always get a new pawl. If you stretch it too much, you can always file it back as Driftwood Johnson described above.

Recognize that you do not have to remove the trigger (a major pain) to get the hammer and pawl out of the gun. Once you take off the grip frame, the hammer pin is the only thing you have to remove to remove the hammer and pawl. Even leave the transfer bar in the gun. Just pull the hammer back and all the way down, then depress the hammer plunger in the base of the hammer with a small tipped screwdriver to clear the cyl latch. Let the hammer and pawl fall out. Install in reverse! Piece o’ cake.

After stretching the pawl, just put it, the hammer and hammer pin back in the gun to check the cylinder lock up.

Let us know what you decide to do.

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Ruger single action "collector, accumulator, builder and shooter"
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 17, 2013 3:45 pm 
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I've used the "stretch the pawl" procedure for many, many years to "tighten up" the lockwork on my shooters. :D
I've "also used the weld it up and cut in a 1/2 cock notch" modification but that's not what this post is about.

flatgate


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