Lee FCD (pistol, not rifle) the Virtue and the Vice

Lost Sheep · Dec 24, 2012

Lee FCD (pistol, not rifle) the Virtue and the Vice

Thanks to blazerbowe for sharing his question on his thread:

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=691028

The post-sizing feature of the Lee Pistol FCD (Factory Crimp Die) would "cure" blazerbowe's problem (the virtue). This, according to Lee Precision, is the principal reason for the existence of the pistol FCD.

But it would do nothing to identify or cure the cause (the vice)

In fact, by squishing the bullet inside the case, might create another problem (inadequate grip of the case on the bullet or loose bullet tension). This is particularly problematic with lead bullets, less so with jacketed.

I took this opportunity to post because these simple facts often get lost in the heated rhetoric that sometimes invades threads about the Lee FCD.

Thanks for reading.

Jimbo357mag · Dec 24, 2012

I use the Lee factory crimp die (FCD) for all my pistol cartridges. They work great. They allow precise control of the amount of crimp used, especially important with copper plated bullets, and as noted in the op they post size the case with the bullet installed for perfect chambering. The only problem I have heard about is the sizing down of larger diameter lead bullets. With normal diameter lead bullets I have had no problems but the throats in my guns are tight.

Cheesewhiz · Dec 24, 2012

More bell is the answer and the fix with the linked THR thread. I use a Lee FCD die on both 9mm and .45 ACP, with a properly seated bullet they work just fine. BTW, I load for CZ's, the shortest chambered guns made and my SD .45 ammo is Hornady 185gr XTP factory they are at 1.230" long and feed and seat very well. I load my Hornady's at a bit longer than that length and they have a .015" clearance from the rifling. The numbers and some of the conclusions in that thread make no sense to me whatsoever.

Rick Courtright · Dec 25, 2012

Cheesewhiz said:
More bell is the answer and the fix with the linked THR thread.

Hi,

That's been my experience w/ 9mm, esp. when loading lead bullets that are sized 0.001" larger than jacketed. W/ too little flare, the bullet can't self-center when entering the case, so it goes in crooked, leading to bulges. I use the Lee FCD on all my ammo, and the pistol version WILL take care of minor post sizing problems, but WON'T overcome bad loading practices.

Rick C

KLNC · Dec 25, 2012

I think the FCD is superb with cartridges like 38-40, 32-20 etc., but with straight wall brass the design is different, and for those I much prefer the Redding Profile Crimp Die.

anachronism · Dec 25, 2012

There really is no such thing as "oversized" cast bullets. Cast bullets require careful sizing to the chamber throats to work properly. If the throats are larger than nominal SAAMI specs, as most are, a larger cast bullet is required. This is one reason there are so many different sizing dies available, often about .001 in difference. Add to this, the fact that no two lots of brass cases are exactly the same thickness. The FCD sized the assembled ammunition from the outside, after assembly. A thicker walled case, when used with the FCD will compress the case & bullet to it's preset outside case diameter. So if you have a carefully sized cast bullet that measures .359, and a case that is a half a thou thicker at the mouth than the previous case was, and the FCD is trying to reduce the OD of the loaded cartridge to say .375, that carefully sized cast bullet will have it's final diameter swaged down to around .355 or so (I'm measuring a loaded round of .357 mag as I type, and guessing at the case wall thickness). There are just too many variables to smash everything down to a uniform OD. Jacketed bullets forgive such actions to an extent, cast bullets can tolerate them to a much smaller extent, but that's an easy line to cross. One or two thousandths makes a great deal of difference to a cast bullet.

Lost Sheep · Dec 28, 2012

Post #3 on this thread

http://rugerforum.net/reloading/65863-lee-fcd-pistol-not-rifle-virtue-vice.html#post818877

Thank you, Iowegan. Thank you, thank you, thank you.

I don't agree 100% with EVERY opinion he holds, but the post is... well you owe it to yourself to read, think and form your own opinion.

Lost Sheep

Rick Courtright · Dec 29, 2012

Lost Sheep said:
well you owe it to yourself to read, think and form your own opinion.

Hi,

I did, do and have...

Let's just say one of the great things about reloading is it often offers more than one way to skin a cat as the old saying puts it. And while opinions vary widely on the technique that "best" achieves this goal, all that REALLY counts is where the bullet lands. If it's where we want it, then life is good!

Seems wise to leave it at that...

Rick C

Skinnedknuckles · Jan 3, 2013

anachronism said:
There really is no such thing as "oversized" cast bullets. Cast bullets require careful sizing to the chamber throats to work properly. If the throats are larger than nominal SAAMI specs, as most are, a larger cast bullet is required. This is one reason there are so many different sizing dies available, often about .001 in difference. Add to this, the fact that no two lots of brass cases are exactly the same thickness. The FCD sized the assembled ammunition from the outside, after assembly. A thicker walled case, when used with the FCD will compress the case & bullet to it's preset outside case diameter. So if you have a carefully sized cast bullet that measures .359, and a case that is a half a thou thicker at the mouth than the previous case was, and the FCD is trying to reduce the OD of the loaded cartridge to say .375, that carefully sized cast bullet will have it's final diameter swaged down to around .355 or so (I'm measuring a loaded round of .357 mag as I type, and guessing at the case wall thickness). There are just too many variables to smash everything down to a uniform OD. Jacketed bullets forgive such actions to an extent, cast bullets can tolerate them to a much smaller extent, but that's an easy line to cross. One or two thousandths makes a great deal of difference to a cast bullet.

Actually, the FCD doesn't reduce the diameter of the larger lead bullet in the area of the land which is above the crimp groove (the important portion), and pressure will re-expand the base on ignition. I had a revolver with large throats and tried larger bullets to reduce leading. The only problem I had with the FCD and larger .38 Special bullets (.361") was that the clearance hole in the FCD above the crimp ring was smaller and pushed the bullet further into the case. Any bullet larger than .359 wouldn't fit my die, so I had to crimp with the seating die. I pulled and measured some larger lead bullets both before and after FCD and the diameter of the base had reduced about the same amount in eather case, since I used the same size expander die for all size bullets as that was all I had.

And by definition if the FCD re-sizes the cartridge it is because it is oversize and probably woudn't chamber correctly.

Lee FCD (pistol, not rifle) the Virtue and the Vice

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