Apparently kids don't have to know anything

[Pál_K]

...These are people making $100,000.00 or more per year. Yet,, they can't write legible sentences,, or put forth an understandable presentation, or even worse,, due to poor communication skills,, refuse to actually contact customers for several things that is SUPPOSED to be part of their jobs.
The truly sad part is the upper level management accepts too much of this as "normal."

Just wait until they start using AI like ChatGPT to write presentations and proposals... or use it to guide foreign policy and military decisions.

 

[eveled]

funny how we celebrate (in)dependence day, yet are moving towards (co)dependence.

We don't celebrate Independence Day anymore. We celebrate the Fourth of July. Won't be long now we will be saying. "Merry December 25th".

 

[Pál_K]

I think the biggest deficits are in math and history. Some kids (and some of the employees of mine when I was still running several nursing homes) did not understand numbers and what they stood for, and of course could not do basic math calculations. If they were weighing a resident on a digital scale, and that resident had been around 175 pounds week after week, but this time the scale read 43 pounds, they would write that into the medical chart without any concern since that is what they saw on the screen of the scale. They had no concept of what these numbers meant and so were not immediately thinking that something was not right. The lack of knowledge of history is even more striking. This lack leaves them vulnerable to manipulation by politicians who present things to them that "feel" right or wrong but are not tempered by any understanding of what has happened in the past. One of my own grandchildren, a high school student, who knows that I am a veteran of the Vietnam War, asked me if ever killed any Germans during the war that I was in. Almost unbelievable.

What you're observing is innumeracy - the lack of understanding of what numbers represent, the inability to understand the concept of magnitudes, probabilities, and false data.

About 30 years ago I heard a radio interview of John Paulos who wrote the book Innumeracy - Mathematical Illiteracy and its Consequences

Innumeracy (book) - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

This is why today we have trillion dollar deficits that don't mean anything to people. This is why Biden says 150 million Americans have been killed by guns since 2007, and why some people think the first hurricane or flood they experienced in their town during their lifetime is evidence of man-made climate change.

This is why people and the news media don't realize having 10,000 unknown people walking into the country every day is like creating a new city of 3,650,000 unknown people every year.

Consequences will be crushing.

 

[Hvymax]

Part of it is that the the powers to be think they need to keep coming up with NEW ways to teach or do math. The old addition subtraction multiplication etc are not good enough. No more memorizing multiplication tables or knowing how to carry the remainder. My grandsons are in second grade; Phonetics are good enough, no need to spell correctly. For math instead of straight forward addition and subtractions they need to break it into tens etc.. I can help them get the right answer using "normal" math but I can't follow the convoluted way they teach it now. Common core teaching and all that. No wonder that tutoring is big business now.

It's to break down the relationship between parents and their kids.

 

[Jeepnik]

Ahh math. No matter how advanced it still only comes down to four functions. You'll have folks talk about hight functions but they were derived using the basic four functions. It's all in how you combine them.

 

[KIR]

We don't celebrate Independence Day anymore. We celebrate the Fourth of July. Won't be long now we will be saying. "Merry December 25th".

Personally, I don't think we will. It seems that many things are shortened to acronyms and have been for some time. Parents give their children long full names, then call them by a shorter nickname.
Amusing exception: One day my son called me and asked me why he didn't have a middle name? I told him, wasn't [first name: 8 letters] and [last: 10 letters] long enough for you to have to write out? He said, yeah, but everybody thinks my middle is NMN! LOL Sometimes we don't even use acronyms, just emoji's!

 

[eveled]

LOL. I hope you are right.

As far as new math goes. I had a boss in the 1980's. Who had his own system. He explained it to me but it seemed like more work. Less intuitive to me. But he said my way made no sense to him so he did it his way.

Fast forward 30 years and everyone is complaining about new math. It's the same system my old boss had! Nothing new.

I came to the conclusion different people think differently. One way is easier for some, the other way is easier for others.

The education system is wrong to force either system onto everyone. Same as they were wrong to insist everyone use their right hand to write.

With math the answer is either correct or wrong. If you get the correct answer what difference does it make how you got it?

 

[Paladin]

One of the saddest TV segments I use to watch was Fox News Jesse Watters "man on the street" interviews. ...questions about historic persons or dates and most folks were clueless.
Pathetic !

Following along this same line of the canary in the coal mine warning for the dumbing down of America are the "Jaywalking" segments on Jay Leno's Tonight show. The display of ignorance of the young people was jaw dropping.

 

[Pál_K]

To be fair, those segments are edited to show mostly the morons. Even so, that some people can't name the sides of who fought in the Civil War is amazing.

My favorite is Jesse asking a really hot girl in a bikini in Miami beach to name whose face was on the quarter. Her reply: "I don't look at quarters."

 

[caryc]

If kids today can't do math, I guess their heads would really explode if you laid some Roman numerals on them.

 

[GypsmJim]

Examining data without analyzing is just not too bright!

Middle class families (Read: one generation from a "hillbilly" grandmother), my family includes: One niece with a Phd, one with an M.A., another with a B.S. in Biology, another with a B.A. in Art (and is a recognized artist), a sister-in-law with a B.S. in Nursing, a BIL with an MA in counseling, another SIL with a MA in teaching, BIL with degree in accounting, niece with a Master's in History and 3 nephews with Master's in computers and/or Electrical Engineering, a wife with a BA in English and an MBA, and I have a BS in Biology and an MS in Biology. Only my FIL had a degree.

Granted, I have only used Calculus once since college and Advanced Algebra (quadratics) a couple of times. But use of fractions, simple algebra, etc. is pretty much needed. And, regardless of what some say, the ability to speak well marks an educated man!

While in grad school, I took the California Basic Educational Skills Test (CBEST) in order to substitute teach. At that time, it was a 6-hour test and you could take it 3 times in order to pass. It had 3 parts: English, Math and Writing. If you passed one section, you still had 6 hours on your second try but didn't have to redo the part you had passed (6 hour for 2 sections). There was a girl who was already teaching on an emergency cert who was on her third try and still had not passed the writing part (a sort of "What I Did Last Summer" essay). The English was basic (What is the verb in this sentence?) and the math no longer included even simple algebra; just 8th grade math!

Your diatribe is a bit perplexed. Regardless....

My wife is a retired teacher that continues as a substitute because she loves kids. Often at local restaurants we come across her old or current students as waitresses or cashiers and it is a sad story how they cannot make change when the puter register goes down. THAT kind of simple moron match is what WE were taught eons ago.

Her current students are seemingly taught English, but when you hear them talk with their peers its quite obvious that their tweeters have provided no knowledge.

Yes, I have reviewed and analyzed the statistics presented in the newspaper. My assessment is that the numbers are wrong. It's much worse than that. We are doomed as a society. My only hope is that kids like MINE will be able to prevail with others that were encouraged by their parents.

 

[GunnyGene]

Your diatribe is a bit perplexed. Regardless....

My wife is a retired teacher that continues as a substitute because she loves kids. Often at local restaurants we come across her old or current students as waitresses or cashiers and it is a sad story how they cannot make change when the puter register goes down. THAT kind of simple moron match is what WE were taught eons ago.

Her current students are seemingly taught English, but when you hear them talk with their peers its quite obvious that their tweeters have provided no knowledge.

Yes, I have reviewed and analyzed the statistics presented in the newspaper. My assessment is that the numbers are wrong. It's much worse than that. We are doomed as a society. My only hope is that kids like MINE will be able to prevail with others that were encouraged by their parents.

I wonder if they realize they are being treated like cattle. Cattle don't need to know much; just consume stuff and get in the chute when it's their turn.

 

[KIR]

Following along this same line of the canary in the coal mine warning for the dumbing down of America are the "Jaywalking" segments on Jay Leno's Tonight show. The display of ignorance of the young people was jaw dropping.

Many of the Jaywalking people were students from UCLA! I remember those.

 

[vito]

I once saw an interview with Jay Leno and he was asked if it took a great number of people interviewed in the street to come up with the funny, ignorant ones. Jay replied that it was scary to find how easy it was to get the six or seven ignorant folks on tape, that maybe it took stopping 10 people to get the 7 ignorant ones. Not a surprise to me.

 

[Snake45]

I've long considered my mid-'70s Bachelors Degree to be about the equivalent of my Dad's 1949 High School diploma.

My idiot racist stepson got a "Doctorate" degree in something or other* a couple years ago. I consider that inferior to my 1972 High School Diploma.

*I can't even remember what his "doctorate" is in, and neither can his mother, who supposedly cares. I've said before that I'll call him "Doctor" when he can write me a prescription for codeine cough syrup (and the same goes for our idiot "first lady," too). Till then, I "prescribe" for him a nice, hot, relaxing cup of STFU.

 

[GypsmJim]

I wonder if they realize they are being treated like cattle. Cattle don't need to know much; just consume stuff and get in the chute when it's their turn.

I have to disagree about the cattle analogy.

When I was in school we had huge classes and tons of homework. We were packed in like cattle. Today, the classes are small and some even have TWO teachers - one to help the special kids in class.

There are 2 problems... First, they are given stuff to "consume", but they simply don't grasp it. They are passed ahead even if they can't pass the exams. Second, and MOST important, it's all about the CONTENT of what they are taught. Life skills and important math, history and English have been substituted with liberal crap to indoctrinate them.

 

[BearBiologist]

Your diatribe is a bit perplexed. Regardless....

My wife is a retired teacher that continues as a substitute because she loves kids. Often at local restaurants we come across her old or current students as waitresses or cashiers and it is a sad story how they cannot make change when the puter register goes down. THAT kind of simple moron match is what WE were taught eons ago.

Her current students are seemingly taught English, but when you hear them talk with their peers its quite obvious that their tweeters have provided no knowledge.

Yes, I have reviewed and analyzed the statistics presented in the newspaper. My assessment is that the numbers are wrong. It's much worse than that. We are doomed as a society. My only hope is that kids like MINE will be able to prevail with others that were encouraged by their parents.

If you reviewed the figures in the paper, please answer some questions:
1. Sample size?
2. Sampling technique?
3. Univariate or polyvariate?==I'm sorry, I meant ANOVA or MANOVA!
4. What statistical test was used=hopefully at least a Chi-square with Bonferroni adjustment if a small sample. Otherwise, a Student's t-test?
5. Outliers thrown out?
6. Segregation by age, sex, ethnic background?
7. Private vs public schooling?
8. P value??

EDITS in BOLD.

 

[eveled]

I've often wondered if the average high school graduate could pass a GED test.

I also wonder how many Americans could pass a citizenship test.

 

[BearBiologist]

EXCEL

I've often wondered if the average high school graduate could pass a GED test.

I also wonder how many Americans could pass a citizenship test.

EXCELLENT QUESTION!!!!

I've taken the citizenship test and passed (But only somewhere in the 80% range).
GED- a snap but I have several degrees so not a fair assessment.

I personally feel parental attitudes play a large role. Both a nurturing and demanding attitude. Can't just demand or rebellion will result, you must also encourage and nurture a child. In the examples I mentioned above from my own family, we were nurtured as well. My parents demanded good grades but also gave us freedom. I got into trouble as a student for being "Brillian but obnoxious" as one teacher put it. But, after I started to learn to read, I was allowed to read anything. From "Forever Amber" to "Valley of the Dolls: to Superman and Batman. I was reading Bullfinch's Mythology in the Third Grade, Norse mythology in the fourth, and Leon Uris, James Michener in the 6th. When I got in trouble, my parents would be there while the school VP was yelling at me! I got kicked out of college prep classes in the 8th grade but reinstated after I organized a student revolt against a supercilious aad domineering English teacher.

My fraternal nieces used me as an example to get their degrees and even do some grad school (One got her MA). My wife's nieces had their parents as examples (two were home-schooled). All of their families EXPECTED them to go to college but spent the time to ensure they succeeded.

Nowadays, too many parents are chasing the dollar. My mom was mostly a stay-at-home mom. Dad was a milkman. Mother-in-law was stay at home. Father-in-law was deceased. We kids did chores (when we had to=as in my parents made us!) I had to pay rent during college, but my mom gave it back to me for tuition and books each semester. We never had much. McDonalds or a pizza on payday was a treat. Dad got milk and cheese for a low price and that's what we drank. Maybe a Coke on payday. Learned lots of ways to cook hamburger (stood me in good stead when all we had in grad school was an elk and a big mulie buck.

They also taught us a work ethic. We didn't learn that in school. My grandfather broke horses, rode rodeo, lumberjacked, farmed. He was a hard man but a good example now that I think back on it. The family would get together and help him pore concrete or raise a roof on rentals he built. EVERYBODY helped=six-year-olds fetched tools or water.

ENOUGH=You get the idea.

 

[Snake45]

I also wonder how many Americans could pass a citizenship test.

I'm PRETTY sure I could.

I know for a FACT that The Lovely Mrs. Snake DID in 2000, and she has the papers to prove it (unfortunately, signed by Slick Willie).