Why didn't the PC9 work out?

[David LaPell]

I never had the chance to shoot one or own one, but I was thinking about getting another little carbine especially since I am getting a 9mm handgun. Why didn't the PC9 work out? It follows the same model that Beretta's Storm, the Kel-Tec and even the mediocre quality Chiappa 9mm carbine follow, using pistol mags. With the P89 mags, you have a pretty good selection. So why didn't the PC9 work out? I see them rarely up for sale at all so I assume they're pretty popular.

 

[9x19]

Poor marketing... Ruger intended them to be long arms for LEOs, but that market had little interest. Ruger should have shifted to marketing them as a sporting arm, like the Marlin Camp Carbine.... instead they unloaded them at a discount to folks like CDNN.

 

[Dranrab]

I have one. It really is a terrific rifle. They don't really serve any particular purpose particularly well though. They failed simply because there wasn't a market for them.

 

[DGW1949]

I have one. It really is a terrific rifle. They don't really serve any particular purpose particularly well though. They failed simply because there wasn't a market for them.

I was still a cop when those came out.
We all thought of it as answer to a question that none of us had asked. :lol: ....The general thought was....oh really?, whatcha going to do with it that can't be done better with your shotgun?

DGW

 

[Rumrunner]

I think if more police departments were carrying Ruger P pistols it would have helped the PC9 and PC40 carbines. Then an officer could have spare mags that fit either gun, making things somewhat simpler. I also thought them to be on the heavy side, and no offering in the 45acp hurt as well.

 

[blume357]

If we were actually at war in the streets it might have held on... but in reality... contrary to what we see on the news, LEO's don't really use their side arms hardly ever and so what is the chance that they are going to need a complimentary long gun too?

Original poster: if you are going to get a PC 9 or 4 then you might as well plan to get a P pistol or two also.

Now one criticism of the PC9s and 4.... they have the heaviest trigger pull ever put on a rifle.. This was done intentionally .... but if you get one be prepared... the trigger break is good but the pull is I suspect something like 15lbs.... one day I'll get a trigger scale and find out. But, what ever you do, if you get one DO NOT try to modify it.

 

[Dranrab]

They do have horrible (I should say heavy) triggers, but the trigger on my 10/22 magnum is much worse if you ca believe that is possible. As bad as the PC9 trigger is, I can manage mine pretty well.

 

[eveled]

The other 9mm carbines are still being made, but I don't see them really thriving. The only advantage they have is magazine compatibility with your primary, so they are linked to the popularity of the matching pistol. A carbine that uses Beretta or Glock magazines has an instant larger market than the Ruger.

If I were going to make and market a carbine that uses pistol magazines, it would be 1911 based, and .45acp. So I would have the largest market possible.

 

[22/45 Fan]

They do have horrible (I should say heavy) triggers, but the trigger on my 10/22 magnum is much worse if you ca believe that is possible. As bad as the PC9 trigger is, I can manage mine pretty well.

Trigger quality on any 10/22 can be upgraded to wonderful with fairly inexpensive and readily available after market parts. No so much with the PC9.

 

[blume357]

That's for sure.. the PC9/4s have got to have the most exclusive trigger design ever invented... wish Coffee Pot was still around to explain.. he was a member here and was actually involved in the design...

speaking of 9mm pistol and rifle combos... I just ran across this today:

http://fmkfirearms.com/firearms/packages/

I might just end up with that rifle since I am getting one of those pistols for 'free'...
ain't nothing free

 

[mrmike7189]

I saw a Ruger Police Carbine being carried by a police officer in San Diego this week. There was a man barricaded in a house near the airport. it was on the National news. Not sure which P.D. had it?

 

[reloader]

I remember looking at one once at a pawn shop. It was priced higher than a Mini 14 and weighed about a pound more.
Another thing about 9mm is that with the length of the case and the powders used in it there is not that much benefit to shooting it in a longer barrel. Maybe hand loads could improve it a little more, but being a semi auto it has it's limitations. Though I have known a few people who really like their Marlin Camp carbines.

 

[welder]

That's for sure.. the PC9/4s have got to have the most exclusive trigger design ever invented... wish Coffee Pot was still around to explain.. he was a member here and was actually involved in the design...


Ruger's "belt and suspenders" concept, no way you could knock that trigger off with a light touch, designed intentionally for police work and very durable for rough use. I have a PC9 and it rates probably as durable as any gun I own, Glocks and 590A1's included. They are just plain fun to shoot and I wished I had kept the other two I owned at one time.

 

[mrmike7189]

Ruger's "belt and suspenders" concept, no way you could knock that trigger off with a light touch, designed intentionally for police work and very durable for rough use. I have a PC9 and it rates probably as durable as any gun I own, Glocks and 590A1's included. They are just plain fun to shoot and I wished I had kept the other two I owned at one time.[/quote]

I saw a PC4 yesterday at a LGS for $599 with 8 magazines.
Since I already own one should I get another for parts or just for collectors value?
(I was holding out for a PC9....those are near impossible to find)

 

[Biggfoot44]

Couple of reasons. Ruger aimed them at the LE market. The LE market was not yet interested in widespread issue of Patrol Rifles , shotguns still being good enough.

The Marlin Camp Carbine was priced more reasonably , and had larger share of sporting/ plinking market. And @ the time , s&W 9mm's & 1911's were more popular , for mag availibility / interchange. Alas , the Camp Carbine is also gone , with cult demand.

 

[coach]

MechTech makes an upper for Glocks and 1911's that turn your pistol into a carbine. Fairly easy to convert back and forth. The action is blowback and can be had in 9mm and .45 and maybe a few others. I haven't looked at their site in a while.

 

[mohavesam]

Agree with the "good for what?" crowd. Heavy, lousy trigger, little or no velocity advantage over handguns, no optics option. And black, when black guns were not very popular (post-1988 ban). But heavy was the dealbreaker. Carrying one on a three-hour trek in the desert or at altitude would have been agony.

Probably made good for an entry weapon for policia, but not much intrinsic value for plinking or junkyard rats.
I always shunned them when found on the racks.

 

[mrmike7189]

Agree with the "good for what?" crowd. Heavy, lousy trigger, little or no velocity advantage over handguns, no optics option. And black, when black guns were not very popular (post-1988 ban). But heavy was the dealbreaker. Carrying one on a three-hour trek in the desert or at altitude would have been agony.

Probably made good for an entry weapon for policia, but not much intrinsic value for plinking or junkyard rats.
I always shunned them when found on the racks.

I disagree
They are awesome weapons for home defense with the short barrel plus you do get velocity increase.
They are fun plinkers and and very accurate for taking out critters!

 

[blume357]

The trigger is heavy for a reason.. it kind of throws you at first.... folks will stop and look to see if the safety is still on .... but once you figure out the 'heavy' pull the actual break is crisp and clean....

I'll tell the story I've told here before of what they are good for... number of years back we had a major weather event in our town and my wife and I had to pack up and get ready to head out.... did not know how far we would get in a vehicle and so we had to pack light in case we needed to walk. In doing this I had to actually seriously think about what personal protection I was going to take. No way to take all my guns and I needed to take what I could carry easily.... just in case I needed to use them. For me the answer was one heck of a light bulb going off.. Two Ruger P95's, one for me and one for her and a PC9.... couple of 15 round mags fully loaded and that was it. Now, I do have to clarify that the PC9 I chose then was slightly modified. That one I put a folding stock on and so it is much more compact when carried.

 

[mohavesam]

My reference to the velocity issue was borne from experience with the Marlin Camp 9 and Camp 45(not computed internet graphs).
Years ago I had the Camp 9 and shot tons of Federal 9BP HP through it. Through a chronograph it showed we lost around 40-70 fps from the Marlin compared to a pristine little S&W 39. Likewise my Browning P35 shot a little "faster" than the carbine. I was very disappointed until a co-worker agreed and brought his then-new Camp 45 out, and it scored absolutely single-digit fps increases over the 1911s we had on-hand. (This was the 80s, I had no Excel software on-hand).

Then at least, factory pistol ammo was apparently loaded with powders designed to fully burn within a very few inches of barrel - the longer carbine tubes had little or no flash, indicating to our pseudo-scientific minds that the gas-expansion had fully occurred long before the bullets left the muzzle, which essentially meant the rifling began to drag on the bullets after full gas expansion had occurred.

The effect was not not there of course with a 357M and 44M carbine at hand, wherein much slower powders were in use, utilizing all the barrel length (and more) while the powder was still burning - and giving comparatively huge fps advantage. Ruger themselves proved the concept with 22LR barrels, wherein the optimum velocity can be achieved at around 16-17 inches, and more barrel (like my 22" Cooper) may provide realized accuracy but zero additional velocity over a 17-incher. But things are almost always different with rimfires... YMMV.