What I Found Interesting About "The Duke"

[el caminero]

Was his cylinder frame aluminum? My fast draw guns have aluminum barrels with rifled steel inserts in them.

Here is one of my regular style gunbelts.

Alloy frame, barrel looked the same, i believe steel lined. The cylinder on the one appeared alloy, too, but for wax plug loads on little more than primer propulsion, perfectly adequate. Steel mundenstyle fanner hammer, or the sear and stops would ve wore out too fast. possibly lightened, but not drilled-out like a bonneville racer. Mainspring reduced but mostly worked on the primers he used...any misfires, iirc, were blamed on primers, and i seem to remember him fanning thru the wheel for a second hit on one that dident get enough the first time. Remember, the original airweight ran an alloy cylinder and std ammo! They woulda lasted forever with waxplug loads, rather than splitting-out like the original walker colt's cylinders.

 

[Chief]

Was his cylinder frame aluminum? My fast draw guns have aluminum barrels with rifled steel inserts in them.

Here is one of my regular style gunbelts.

That's beautiful Cary. Those stocks are marvelous!

 

[Fox Mike]

Why don't you enter in the regular fast draw competition with your regular Bob Wright style holster. I'm sure you could outdraw those guys.

Bob, I'm only using your name as he did in describing a style of holster. I have some Bob Wright style gunbelts and holsters myself.

You seem to be reading too much into what I said. My post was 'my opinion' of what I considered fast draw. No one had mentioned that there was more than one type of 'fast draw' competition. I also never said that I was interested in competing.

 

[el caminero]

Clint Walker was a big guy also. Stated in Cheyenne and 6'6". It was James Arness's long arms that allowed him to fast draw a 7 1/2" barreled gun. Clint was to use the 4 1/2" six gun.

Jim garner usually had a longbarrel, too. Cavalry, not buntline. Sunset 1988 was great fun, with willis, a lefty, playing tom mix

 

[pyth0n]

I don't remember ever seeing him draw and shoot left handed. Was he wearing a holster on his left side or a cross draw holster?

He did in El Dorado when he fell off his horse & Mississippi come up on him while he was down. He reached behind his back with is left to get his six shooter.
That's the only one I recall.

 

[rwp315]

Ever see Clint Walker shirtless in the show? He had the V shaped upper torso that women used to swoon over.

Yes, 48" chest 32" waist.

 

[pyth0n]

Here is a short that has Duke's holster is on the left. It is possible I think that the film could be reversed somehow. I have seen a couple of movies where he shot left-handed.

El Dorado 1966

Sorry, that didn't work

I notice that Wayne's holster was allowed to slide any where on his belt, except for the rig he wore in the Shootist.

 

[caryc]

Alloy frame, barrel looked the same, i believe steel lined. The cylinder on the one appeared alloy, too, but for wax plug loads on little more than primer propulsion, perfectly adequate. Steel mundenstyle fanner hammer, or the sear and stops would ve wore out too fast. possibly lightened, but not drilled-out like a bonneville racer. Mainspring reduced but mostly worked on the primers he used...any misfires, iirc, were blamed on primers, and i seem to remember him fanning thru the wheel for a second hit on one that dident get enough the first time. Remember, the original airweight ran an alloy cylinder and std ammo! They woulda lasted forever with waxplug loads, rather than splitting-out like the original walker colt's cylinders.

There are two "frames" on a revolver. Grip frame and cylinder frame. Are you saying that he had someone make him a cylinder frame out of aluminum? All those modifications you mentioned above is why he was not allowed to compete in WFDA. World Fast Draw Association.

 

[caryc]

This is another one of my fast draw guns built by Bob Graham. It started life as a single six. The front of the cylinders chambers are bored out to .38 caliber to accept wax bullets. The rear of the cylinder is still left at .22 cal so it uses .22 cal blanks to propel the wax bullet. Barrel is aluminum lined with rifled steel insert. Hammer is a fanning hammer. Top strap is shaved to reduce weight. The cylinders approaches and the lock stop notch have been deepened. It's a fun gun to shoot.

 

[el caminero]

There are two "frames" on a revolver. Grip frame and cylinder frame. Are you saying that he had someone make him a cylinder frame out of aluminum?

Yes. The only obviously steel part, and this was over 40 years ago, appeared to be the hammer.

 

[caryc]

Yes. The only obviously steel part, and this was over 40 years ago, appeared to be the hammer.

I did a lot of researching on the net and can't find anything about him having an alloy cylinder frame. I found lots of articles about his modifications but nothing about the cylinder frame.

 

[el caminero]

I did a lot of researching on the net and can't find anything about him having an alloy cylinder frame. I found lots of articles about his modifications but nothing about the cylinder frame.

If i asked him who made it, i prolly woulda remembered.
Adit;
okay, see, its like this. I had handled super blackhawks, (just out of school, i hadent shot anything but mom's .22 buffalo scout), but was familiar with super blackhawks. Caught a munden show at the state fair, he invited me into his trailer between shows. The first one he handed me, was nice and light, and was shiny silvery, with his signature hammer. I started to cock it, he was talking about the action work, and his left snaked out and grabbed it away from me, always check first its unloaded!!!. But that gun felt light, and if nickelled it was not highly reflective. We talked some more, he explained some of the work done, this one is not a standing target shooter, its a fastdrawing target shooter. Talked draw, holsters, and loadings, till the next showtime. Talking later with a fellow who worked with dick casull, who said that windbag handed you his aluminum gun? I patted the wheeler- topping star mag we had been talking over and said it sure was a lot lighter than this gun! The shop opinion seemed to be, bob was a fraud. A fast fraud, but a fraud. I have since run across old coots talking down bob, and his lightweight cheaters, but its been a long time. Just now i read where he thought not highly of aluminium guns and their use in competition, but my understanding back then was he wasent competing with the alleged light gun, but thought nothing of it for exhibition. Wish i coulda cleared that up, back then, but dident know. Some of these old coots would even say things like Hell, No, Keith Wasent There. Reminds me of the fellow who the Hidalgo horse story was about, how he'd run to the newspaper when somebody famous died, and he'd tell stories about Me an' ol' Whozis. Always done a lot of rethinking of stories ive heard, and read, all along; you're the first one to say theres no evidence for this one. People have said; not surprising, or never heard THAT, but not Never Happenned.
So, there! Bob's alleged aluminium exhibition gun is prolly urban legend...

 

[caryc]

If i asked him who made it, i prolly woulda remembered.
Adit;
okay, see, its like this. I had handled super blackhawks, (just out of school, i hadent shot anything but mom's .22 buffalo scout), but was familiar with super blackhawks. Caught a munden show at the state fair, he invited me into his trailer between shows. The first one he handed me, was nice and light, and was shiny silvery, with his signature hammer. I started to cock it, he was talking about the action work, and his left snaked out and grabbed it away from me, always check first its unloaded!!!. But that gun felt light, and if nickelled it was not highly reflective. We talked some more, he explained some of the work done, this one is not a standing target shooter, its a fastdrawing target shooter. Talked draw, holsters, and loadings, till the next showtime. Talking later with a fellow who worked with dick casull, who said that windbag handed you his aluminum gun? I patted the wheeler- topping star mag we had been talking over and said it sure was a lot lighter than this gun! The shop opinion seemed to be, bob was a fraud. A fast fraud, but a fraud. I have since run across old coots talking down bob, and his lightweight cheaters, but its been a long time. Just now i read where he thought not highly of aluminium guns and their use in competition, but my understanding back then was he wasent competing with the alleged light gun, but thought nothing of it for exhibition. Wish i coulda cleared that up, back then, but dident know. Some of these old coots would even say things like Hell, No, Keith Wasent There. Reminds me of the fellow who the Hidalgo horse story was about, how he'd run to the newspaper when somebody famous died, and he'd tell stories about Me an' ol' Whozis. Always done a lot of rethinking of stories ive heard, and read, all along; you're the first one to say theres no evidence for this one. People have said; not surprising, or never heard THAT, but not Never Happenned.
So, there! Bob's alleged aluminium exhibition gun is prolly urban legend...

Thank you for that! As I said, I could not find anything in print about an aluminum cylinder frame. For me personally, I don't believe it was aluminum. Aluminum is just not strong enough to build a SAA frame from. It would be subject to cracks and stress. When people talk about his aluminum gun, what they were probably meaning was his aluminum barrel. Could he be as fast as he is with a gun with a real steel barrel? I doubt it. Even with the steel insert in it, it would not stand up to live ammunition. I have three fast draw guns with aluminum barrels and inserts and Bob Graham told me not to attempt to fire live ammunition in them. I'd kind of like to see how those barrels are made myself. So as for his aluminum cylinder frame, I guess we'll never really know for sure. Bob Graham who was a champion WFDA shooter built all three of my guns. So why didn't he build an aluminum cylinder frame for any of his personal competition guns?

As for Super Blackhawks, the only difference between them and a regular Blackhawk was the barrel length and the square back trigger guard.

 

[el caminero]

Thank you for that! As I said, I could not find anything in print about an aluminum cylinder frame. For me personally, I don't believe it was aluminum. Aluminum is just not strong enough to build a SAA frame from. It would be subject to cracks and stress. When people talk about his aluminum gun, what they were probably meaning was his aluminum barrel. Could he be as fast as he is with a gun with a real steel barrel? I doubt it. Even with the steel insert in it, it would not stand up to live ammunition. I have three fast draw guns with aluminum barrels and inserts and Bob Graham told me not to attempt to fire live ammunition in them. I'd kind of like to see how those barrels are made myself. So as for his aluminum cylinder frame, I guess we'll never really know for sure. Bob Graham who was a champion WFDA shooter built all three of my guns. So why didn't he build an aluminum cylinder frame for any of his personal competition guns?

As for Super Blackhawks, the only difference between them and a regular Blackhawk was the barrel length and the square back trigger guard.

Heavier barrel (bigger diameter), heavier frame (more steel here and there and there) , it makes a bit of a difference about 4 oz, Colt's saa 5-1/2" 45 vs SBH 5-1/2", about the difference between my seiko and my invicta

 

[caryc]

Heavier barrel (bigger diameter), heavier frame (more steel here and there and there) , it makes a bit of a difference about 4 oz, Colt's saa 5-1/2" 45 vs SBH 5-1/2", about the difference between my seiko and my invicta

The short barreled Super Blackhawks, 4 5/8" & 5 1/2" did not have the square back trigger guard grip frames on them. They had the regular Blackhawk XR3-RED grip frames.

 

[el caminero]

The short barreled Super Blackhawks, 4 5/8" & 5 1/2" did not have the square back trigger guard grip frames on them. They had the regular Blackhawk grip frames.

Yeah, we all know better than to bet too heavily on what googool comes up with

 

[Ale-8(1)]

My OM Blackhawk .45 Colt with 7-1/2" barrel and aluminum XR3-RED grip frame weighs 2lb 7.6oz.

My OM Super Blackhawk .44 with 7-1/2" barrel and steel SBH grip frame weighs 2lb 15.8oz.

Both wear factory walnut grip panels.

 

[XUSNORDIE]

I really enjoyed this thread. Very interesting to learn about the fast draw guns and shooters. Thanks for all the input from those with experience to share.

 

[Bob Wright]

For whatever its worth: Guns magazine devoted a lot of type to fast draw in the 'Sixties (1960s), and seeing those artricles now is somewhat amusing as the participants wore street clothes of the day, high waisted, big legged trousers, short sleeved sport shirts and penny loafers, with buscadero gun belt!
And often noted was that the guns had case hardened cylinders, to minimize peening the cylinder stops by the bolt. And buyers of used Single Actons were cautioned not to fire live, full power smmunition with such cylinders.

(This goes way back!)

Bob Wright

P.S. Just had to edit very heavily. My typing can't keep up with my thinking!

 

[el caminero]

Case hardened cylinders, i never heard of, but adding lie, gull power smmunition, zounds lie a faal cobnimation! Spot-hardening, tho, makes more sense to me.