mike722
Buckeye
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewIt ... =138361777
comments on this one? I know the medallions are set back a bit "too much", but...
comments on this one? I know the medallions are set back a bit "too much", but...
what do you think?
- Thread starter mike722
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radicalrod
Hunter
Mike you need it......we are here to help.....see ya RR.
mike722
Buckeye
oh, didn't try to infer THAT.... just wondering what a concensus was!
contender
Ruger Guru
Well, for what my measly opinion is,, (and I don't own any,, just looked at several sets,,) I'd say not factory. Two things stand out to me; One,, the medallions are a bit far back,, and two,, w/o me getting a couple of sets to compare them to,, aren't those eagles the "thick neck" variety?
Correct me all ya want,, I've been known to be wrong,,,!
Correct me all ya want,, I've been known to be wrong,,,!
I love the gun! That is one with all the color! :shock: :shock: Very nice gun.. The grips are nice :roll: But IMHO They are not the real deal from the factory.....The factory Never shipped the gun from the factory with Ivories...As He States....The ferrell were the screw goes thru the grip is the wrong color along with the screw....I would like to see the under side.... I love the comment he said Quote "Those that want to expose him to their endless knowledge about Ruger...." :roll: :roll: Not to mention that adds more to the fact that one knows the truth!!
Mike I know you know what real Ivories from Ruger look like 8) The things that people say.
Mike I know you know what real Ivories from Ruger look like 8) The things that people say.
No taper to the bottom of the panels, is there? Eagles Set back the distance the emblem would be if these were walnut( a classic mistake by the "builder(s)" if they had no true ivory to model after) No box; top end of today's market. I have SN 1477, it has better color and in same apparent condition. Verbal history as professed here can be put together by even a person with "no Ruger skills".......Pass, at this money and lack of further confirmation details.
Color me skeptical on the grips too, for the above reasons. And the pics are not good enough to tell which ER is on the gun but it kind of looks like a round button when I zoom in - if so, that would be a clue that all is not original, making you want to dig deeper. Also the edges of the frame, and edges of little details like the base pin latch nut just seem a bit to contoured. Something about the way the light reflects - it just seems too smooth or something. This makes me wonder if the gun had been refinished long enough ago for the copper colors to reappear. It could be the pics are just too dark, but it looks to me like the bluing is a bit dark for a period factory finish.
flatgate
Hawkeye
Well, I most certainly agree that the grips are not Ruger issue...
Gunbroker on the Left/Ruger on the right.
JMHO,
flatgate
Gunbroker on the Left/Ruger on the right.
JMHO,
flatgate
my .02 cents...the price is 'too high..." but as for the grips ,have seen some over the years ,same 'set back' both in ivory as well as stags, would have to "see" the back side also, for any final judgement, besides, thats all it would be is another "opinion"...when WE don't have it , it's "wrong" when someone , and whomever that "some-one"is , it will be "right"...doubt if the gun was redone, at least outside the factory, looks like one of 'THEIR' redid, possiblybefore it even left the plant...too much 'streak' (bad batch) and would turn 'streak/plum again, immediately, within hours..I know , we've redone enough of them....gun looks GOOD to me, except to "see"the back of the grips (staking, cut-out, etc), BUT ,again, the price is "high".....
early and later.........
early and later.........
chet15
Hawkeye
A good example here of what I call "accumulated error". Like marking out the siding on the side of a house...if you mark each piece as it goes up, instead of marking the whole side of the house all at once, you will get "accumulated error", and it will literally look like crap by the time you get to the top.
The same has happened with stag and ivory grips and the todays collectors. Today, it doesn't really matter if somebody thinks they are right or wrong. Does one go by the statement made by the seller, as in this gunbroker auction saying he knows they are right? Or can a pair of stag or ivory only be "factory" if you have a letter of provenance from a former Ruger employee?? How many of you have bought stag or ivory because somebody else said they were right?
Fact is, there have been so many pair of stag and ivory made up by those without integrity, that there are very few pair of stag or ivory out there today that can be called correct...and I'm saying I can count what I know to be factory ivory on one hand, maybe both (Jerred eng. .357 #100, Spanish engraved Single-Sixes #7 and 8, a pair of ivory I saw in Denver CO from an ancient dealer about 20 years ago etc). If you know the measurements of what were considered factory grips seen in the early 1980's and earlier, then you can make as many pair of stag and ivory as you want and get away with selling them as factory. Remember that in the early 1980's a pair of stag grips could be had for $50, and ivory for $250 to $300. This was before ivory was banned for import into this country. Stag were rare then and ivory panels were almost non-existant as they should have been...and as they still should be today...(this is important to know!!). When the ban happened, the price of ivory started going up, as did the prices on factory Ruger stag and ivory grips. Whenever the price goes up on something there are sure to be those out there looking to make a quick buck, and why not because Ruger stag and ivory grips are easy to fake if you don't have the morals and integrity to keep yourself from doing so.
And yes, I will guarantee some of the top collectors around the country have fake stag and ivory grips in their collections and don't even know it.
Its a fine line on what is to be considered a $1,400 pair of factory ivory or a $500 pair of faked factory ivory, isn't it??? But to each his own. Stag and ivory XR3 panels with Ruger medallions are "status" symbols for collectors, and there have been many a "young" collector taken in by this. Its unfortunate because in my opinion this collectible market has pretty much been violated. There isn't one "expert" out there today who can tell the difference between an original pair of stag or ivory and a pair that have been faked. They can only say "they look right". So I ask you, what should a pair of stag and ivory panels that "look right" really be worth?? We haven't bought a pair of stag or ivory in over two decades because of this very thing.
Chet15
The same has happened with stag and ivory grips and the todays collectors. Today, it doesn't really matter if somebody thinks they are right or wrong. Does one go by the statement made by the seller, as in this gunbroker auction saying he knows they are right? Or can a pair of stag or ivory only be "factory" if you have a letter of provenance from a former Ruger employee?? How many of you have bought stag or ivory because somebody else said they were right?
Fact is, there have been so many pair of stag and ivory made up by those without integrity, that there are very few pair of stag or ivory out there today that can be called correct...and I'm saying I can count what I know to be factory ivory on one hand, maybe both (Jerred eng. .357 #100, Spanish engraved Single-Sixes #7 and 8, a pair of ivory I saw in Denver CO from an ancient dealer about 20 years ago etc). If you know the measurements of what were considered factory grips seen in the early 1980's and earlier, then you can make as many pair of stag and ivory as you want and get away with selling them as factory. Remember that in the early 1980's a pair of stag grips could be had for $50, and ivory for $250 to $300. This was before ivory was banned for import into this country. Stag were rare then and ivory panels were almost non-existant as they should have been...and as they still should be today...(this is important to know!!). When the ban happened, the price of ivory started going up, as did the prices on factory Ruger stag and ivory grips. Whenever the price goes up on something there are sure to be those out there looking to make a quick buck, and why not because Ruger stag and ivory grips are easy to fake if you don't have the morals and integrity to keep yourself from doing so.
And yes, I will guarantee some of the top collectors around the country have fake stag and ivory grips in their collections and don't even know it.
Its a fine line on what is to be considered a $1,400 pair of factory ivory or a $500 pair of faked factory ivory, isn't it??? But to each his own. Stag and ivory XR3 panels with Ruger medallions are "status" symbols for collectors, and there have been many a "young" collector taken in by this. Its unfortunate because in my opinion this collectible market has pretty much been violated. There isn't one "expert" out there today who can tell the difference between an original pair of stag or ivory and a pair that have been faked. They can only say "they look right". So I ask you, what should a pair of stag and ivory panels that "look right" really be worth?? We haven't bought a pair of stag or ivory in over two decades because of this very thing.
Chet15
As I said, depends on" who's selling ,who's buying, who has them, and who wants them........." .few ,if any are actually "documented",and can be marked in any way one wants....after the fiasco of the "west coast" boys many years back, bottom line is to me anyway, if they LOOK "too good /perfect" and at todays prices ,I'd stay away from them, unless you Want them , or the price is really right. and we have NEVER paid more than $250 for 'stags' ( and that pair was from Mr Dougan himself back in the early 90's..got 'em for another collector here nearby), and her "S" LW came with a pair of 'ivory' grips, the good Doctor let her have for $300.all the rest , we got "free" on guns, so no-one was trying to pull the wool over anyones eyes, or to get rich quick on a 'pair'......oh yeah, my wife reminded me ,she did get a pair from Jeff M when he was 'liquidatiog' his stuff MANY years ago,again, in the lower price range for stags......we know of a few 'collectors" that have MORE stags and ivory grips than most of us can even start to imagine..........remeber you "old timers" back in the early days of the RCA and the 'sponsored' Ruger "theme" shows, seldom, if ever did one "see" ANY stags and , and fewer yet, ivory, grips at any and ALL of these shows , on any of the displays...now days you will "see" a display ,that every gun on the display , will have either stags or ivory grips.....hhmmm, very interesting indeed.............
oh well bottom line, you want 'em, you buy what YOU want , and like, the debate will go on and on, and never end, nor be "settled".............. :roll:
oh well bottom line, you want 'em, you buy what YOU want , and like, the debate will go on and on, and never end, nor be "settled".............. :roll:
anybody know, where in Ohio the seller is located...??
radicalrod
Hunter
Just a simple thought....do you think the ability to communicate with people all over this great country anytime you want has maybe made these much more available.....these treasures appear way more frequently with the invention called EBAY then at the local gun show with 200 tables....look at the numbers JD has shown through his research that the factory actually bought....way more than I would have guessed.....also several different suppliers.....which could be cause for the emblem discrepancies.....JMO, see ya RR.
chet15
Hawkeye
radicalrod":ph625w1b said:
Yes, today's technology probably has had an effect to finding more pair of stag and ivory. But how often do you see a pair show up on any of the auction sites? You would think that with the lure of high $ that quite a few of these would be showing up. How 'bout the odds of somebody not knowing what they are and putting them on an auction site? Again, very few pair show up on any auction. What does this mean...maybe nothing, but if technology makes them more available, it doesn't seem to be happening on the auction sites at least. As a comparison, Ruger drills used to be a lot rarer than stag and ivory grips. Ebay has made Ruger's drills more common and prices have pretty much bottomed out on them.
I guess for me it ended in the '80's when I saw three pair of ivory on three flattops of a well known Nebraska collector of that era. He said they were "right", but I knew right off that three out of the 6 panels couldn't have post 1966 medallions in them and be "right"! He let me take the grips off and all three pair had matching numbers, but were consecutively serial numbered! Funny, they all looked "minty" too. Were it not for those medallions these grips did not differ from the measurements that I go by. I imagine today that somebody has changed the medallions to make them shall we say, "better"? Wonder who's got those today? I hate to break it to everybody, but they could be anywhere!!! So are they worth $500 or $1,400? Just a hypothetical question for everybody to ponder.
As to the differences in medallion location, I'm still working on that one too. Some of Ruger's old timers are still with us today!
Thank God nobody has begun printing exact copies of Ruger's two-piece boxes! I've heard there are those that do this in other firearms makes, but not Ruger yet....(THAT WE KNOW OF!).
Chet15
8) :wink: perhaps, just perhaps, only the Chinese will know................ :roll: :shock:well the internet certainly has opened up the lines of communications, as wel as the buy ,sell trade......but my point is, ,again, the "old timers' will remember, the "hey day" of the RCA there were quite a few "national " Ruger theme shows,, and at some of the BIGGER ones, we had more than a couple of dozen (25-27) displayers, again, from ALL around the country, at Louisville, at Detroit, ,Monroeville,PA and on and on Dallas, , then recently , we now have Tulsa, Nashvilles 'old show' (Smyrna,Tn) and even better yet,now Harrisburg as well as the yearly NRA convention, with groups like the RCA ( yes, of course the OGCA...) at these events also.........go back and look at the pictures of these displays, and yes, of some of the Rugers finest owners, displayers, and collections,,,as well as the 'others' who attended, and sold Ruger "stuff" at these shows, again, from ALL around the country.............and many of these guys had direct connections with the factory, and some of its employees.............and I can tell you , the sight of stags and ivory grips was "few". There were NOT a lot of Ruger dealers back then, way more Smith & Colts.........I been going to the shows since the mid 1960's and buying, selling, and trading, just about every weekend of the month for all these years, and NO, very seldom does one come across this stuff....and I have had LOTS of folks who "bring it to me....." week after week, and again, NOT that many make it there, I have NEVER come across as many as I see in a couple fo collections, or pictures out there...will never forget, when Jeff first was selling his "stuff" and he came around, and ALL the collectors would go "nuts" just "see" what he had to offer, and it was NOT a whole lot of grips, and he wrote some the books............. :roll:
chet15
Hawkeye
Ditto
Chet15
Chet15
8) :winkan, I have only fifteen pair of stag panels, after some forty years in the trenches. Never sold a set. Within the group, there are what I call representatives of the three suppliers/generation of stags. Suggest the Moderators determine how all these posts on stag and ivory grip panels(historical-wise) could be combined and placed in some form of repository. Would be great for all of us, especially the new collectors and members, to be able to "click" on "Stags" and be provided with all these comments and photos............Searches do work, sometimes, but a singular point of reference would be marvelous.
an, I have only fifteen pair of stag panels, after some forty years in the trenches. Never sold a set. Within the group, there are what I call representatives of the three suppliers/generation of stags. Suggest the Moderators determine how all these posts on stag and ivory grip panels(historical-wise) could be combined and placed in some form of repository. Would be great for all of us, especially the new collectors and members, to be able to "click" on "Stags" and be provided with all these comments and photos............Searches do work, sometimes, but a singular point of reference would be marvelous.
radicalrod
Hunter
A never ending SAGA....what were the verifiable numbers from factory receipts in JD's book...like 8500 stags and 1000 ivories.... I am going from memory so I very well am incorrect.....so with Hawkeye's number as a reference say there are 200 HARD CORE COLLECTOR guys with 15 sets so that accounts for less than half of the total verifiable production.....LOTS still out there.....kinda like the RSSE's less than half are accounted for.....they TOO are still out there....heck I buy every set I get a chance at cause one of them has to be RIGHT :lol: :lol: :lol: see ya RR.
street
Hunter
radicalrod":3l4cieza said:
Page 100 and 101 in JD's new book state around 610 Ivory, and 6700 Stags were shipped to Ruger.
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