very light 30-06 loads with powder i have

[polaris]

i need help please. i have a 30-06 rifle and a 13 year old boy that would like to hunt deer next year with it. i (CAN NOT) afford another rifle, but i do reload, problem is i can not get the SR 4759 powder i want. the only powders i have is IMR 3031 IMR 4064 and IMR 4198 all older powder in the metal cans. for bullets i have speer 100gr plinkers, speer 150gr spitzers and speer 170gr flat nose. i would like to start him off shooting the 100gr plinkers first with the lowest safe reload i can make with the powders i have. than move him up to 30-30 loads for deer for the first year or so. my speer manual shows 100gr plinkers with IMR3031 starting load at 53 gr at 3199 fps and IMR4064 starting at 55gr at 3152 fps. of the three powders i have what it the lightest load i can come up with? is around 28 or 29 gr of IMR4198 with a 170gr flat nose bullet a safe load? i would like to make a 30-30 load. i seen it on another web sight. THANKS FOR ANY HELP. :?:

 

[rugerjunkie]

I don't have any of my manuals in front of me right now but maybe try looking at loads on Hodgdon's site. I go there to compare loads and find it pretty helpful.

 

[Rusty W]

I've looked through every manual I have, all 9 of them, Speer, Lyman, Lee, Hornady, and have not been able to help you one bit. My Speer 13 shows a few reduced loads using XMP 5744 and 110, 130, & 150gr bullets. On the 150 gr they have a note that with 42grs of H4895, it duplicates the performance of the 30-30, (2427 fps).

Just my own opinion but it looks like a new powder is in your future. The one's you have are just too slow to get what you need. Now IF you want to go another direction such as cast bullets, there is plenty of data for IMR 4198 or 3031. My self, I like the cast. I've been shooting them for years and it's been my experiance, a critter don't know the difference between 1800 fps or 2800 fps if you put a good size hunk of lead where it counts.

 

[polaris]

thanks for the help. i want to buy SR4759 or another powder, but there all out of stock at every store i have called. THANKS FOR TRYING

 

[Rick Courtright]

Hi,

What are your thoughts on using cast bullets?

I don't have any real experience loading jacketed bullets below conventional "starting" load levels, so I can't offer anything other than what's already been suggested: look at Hodgdon's and others w/ your fingers crossed?

OTOH, if you're ok w/ using cast bullets, there's a lot of "light" stuff possible. The Lyman Cast Bullet Handbook offers quite a few "pop gun" loads. One I've used a lot is a 180 gr bullet, cast of pure wheelweights and water-cooled, w/ a gas check, over a light charge of Unique. These can be tailored between around 1200-1400 fps, are reasonably accurate at 50 yds, usable to 100 but not so accurate (in MY gun) "out there" because of the trajectory. (They're probably no challenge to a guy who's served on a mortar crew! )

The recoil's quite light, so they're great for "trigger time" and training purposes if that's what you're looking for.

Then one can step up... if you have or get a copy of Lee's "Modern Reloading" book, there's a formula in there for "downloading" jacketed bullet recipes to use w/ cast bullets. Of the three powders you mentioned, I've used this formula w/ two, IMR 3031 and IMR 4198. I've loaded them in the 1500-1750 fps range, they work quite well to 100 yds, and I can "ring the dinger" at our range (200 yds) pretty consistently after a sighter or two. Again, this is an "in MY gun" report, but I got better results w/ IMR 4198.

And, using Lee's formula, one can actually load 'em up to the point they'd be ok for some hunting uses. For example, while I wouldn't feel comfortable taking a 200 yd cross canyon shot at a deer w/ one of these loads, a tree stand shot of maybe 50-75 yds at a small to medium animal wouldn't worry me.

Used to be you could save considerable amounts of money using cast bullets, too, but that's changing. Wheelweights are harder to find in the "free" buckets, commercial lead's gone up a lot, and gas checks have gone thru the roof. Still, I can produce bullets w/ commercial lead and gas checks for what I "used" to think was a good price for bulk boxed general purpose jacketed bullets (e.g. Remington Core-Lokts), and they give me a lot more leeway for experimentation. And I save my now "precious" jacketed bullets for "more important" usage than just trigger time shooting...

Rick C

 

[MADISON]

My SPEER #13 Manual says:
165 gr. bullet 25.0 [MAX] grains of 4759 at a velocity of 1941
180 gr bullet 30.0 [MAX] grains of IMR 4198 at a velocity of 2000

Lee publishes a PC program called "SHOOTER" for $12 to $15 that "allows" you to use your normal powder and downsize it to the velocity you want.

I e-mailed LEE atout the safety of doing it with a 30-06 and they said they could not recommend it.

 

[polaris]

is it safe to use speers 170 grain flat nose for 30-30 in place of the 180 grain round nose bullet? i have alot of the 170 gr bullets. with the load you listed 28 to 30 grains of IMR4198 and a 170 grain flat nose bullet, it would be a 30-30 load? and that is what i am looking for. i have alot of IMR4198 powder and 170 grain bullets. i have the speer number nine reloading manual and it shows the same 180 gr round nose with 30 gr IMR4198 max load at 2012 fps. my manuals and my powder, primers and most other stuff is a good 25 plus years old.( yes my powder is still good) THANKS FOR YOUR HELP.

 

[djw54]

polaris,
check your pm's.
Don

 

[polaris]

thanks djw54 i think i sent a pm to you.( i hope) i am not very good with a computer or with E-mail.

 

[Gumby]

polaris

This Rifle Chamber Insert might be just what you need.

http://www.sportsmansguide.com/net/cb/3 ... x?a=471502

Gumby

 

[Ruber]

I know you want to stick with the powders you have, but you might think about Win 748. It's got a nice moderate burn rate and the starting loads feel as gentle (if not more so) than reduced loads with faster burning powders. I've seen kids shy away from 336's or 92's in 30-30 that have done well with an '06 and a mild load of Win748. Plus, you can then just work your way up a bit at a time if you really need a barn burner. And there are a lot of load data out there for that powder...

I started my niece on 30-06 with 47gr Win748 behind a 150gr SST when she was 12. She would go through 40-60 rounds each session at the range and handled it fine. I loaded up some 150gr GMX's in front of the same charge which recently produced a one shot kill on a 200lb hog. Not to shabby for a round you can shoot all day long.

 

[63November]

Besides SR 4759, IMR 4198 is another powder that is actually used in a number of reduced type loads in very similar cartridges and bullet weights.

While it isn't a recommended practice, here is what I'd do if my published data was limited to a source such as Speer. Their #13 shows loads for the smaller cased 30-40 with 110, 130, 180 and 200 grain bullets. Their 30-06 loadings show 180 and 200 grains. The worst case scenario - the combination with potentially the highest pressure would be the 200 grain bullet. The 30-40 goes to 28.0 grains, the 30-06 to 31.0 grains. If you consider 31 grains as the maximum for 170 grain bullets and work at or below that, you should find useful loads in any of the bullet weights you have on hand. You may not get all the accuracy you will normally expect, but it should be enough for developing good skills and learning to adapt to blast and recoil. And, in case you have concerns about using small charges of rifle powder in large cases, note that the 300 magnums also show IMR 4198 with small charges in reduced loads.

 

[polaris]

thanks everyone for all the help. i would be happy to buy another powder but there out of almost every powder around here. i got a call from a good friend of my dads, he said that he has some 5744 that i could have. again i can not find any reduced 30-30 power loads for 30-06 with 150gr or 170gr flat nose with accurate 5744 powder. ANY HELP?

 

[Ruber]

Accurate's XMP5744 is a good one , Speer lists 26.0 to 28.0gr behind their 150 grainers (including roundnose, mag tips and spitzers). It gave 1933 to 2052 fps in their test gun which was a Rem 700.

 

[polaris]

thanks ruber for replying. i wrote down the load you posted, i will be trying it. thanks again for the help.

 

[Ruber]

Sure, as an FYI, Speer used W-W brass and CCI 200 primers with that load.

When supplies get refilled, I'm a big fan of lighter loads being smaller bullets at about 26-2700. Speer has their 110gr Varminter at about that velocity and that is soft enough for the kids but retains the trajectory of bigger hunting loads. I also use these myself for off hand practice and smaller critters also while I can keep the same sight picture.

Enjoy...

 

[mattsbox99]

If you are hunting with it, try the Remington managed recoil load. Its a bullet designed for lower velocity and you won't have any issues using it.

http://www.remington.com/products/ammun ... Recoil.asp

http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/?p ... ber=353369

 

[Sugar River]

If you can beg, borrow or steal some H4895 you can load any bullet listed in their manual. Just take the max load and reduce to 60% (Max load of 4895 x .6). From there you can increase the charge to get a desired velocity but don't venture below the .6 level.
Hodgdon has OK'd this practice for years.

I've used this formula in the 375 H&H with the Horn 220 and the Barnes Orig 255 with outstanding accuracy.

Pete