Using Lee carbide 357 dies on 38 SP?/ how to make blanks?

[WANT A LCR 22LR]

Finally found a used Lee Pro 1000 progressive press last Fri ( $ 75 ! ). It came with 2 sets of dies, top holders and shell plate carriers for 357 Mag and 44 SP. I'll be loading probably 70% 38 and 30% 357.

The Lee parts TXT file on the web site shows the 38 and 357 dies to be the same except for a internal sizing plug and possibly something else.

The FAQ seems to state the 38 die set can be used on 357 but not the other way around. Has anyone had success changing a couple of internal parts and loading both caliber's? However I'm real tempted just to find / trade for a 38SP die set, and use my top plate so I don't have to change adjustments so frequently. Any othere hints to the 38 357 swap?

As for making blanks, so far I've run a couple of cases through the sizer / decapper then loaded 2 primers. . . . I promptly put one in the gun and fired just to see what it would do. The other I loaded with a bit of powder and capped off with a wad of paper. It made a slightly larger bang. Any hints to make blanks? Is paper enough or is crimping the top of the case shut needed?

The point of making blanks is to practice the "shove and shoot" in a PD situation. When I first heard of this, ever gun related safety rule to that point was against putting a person between the target and gun, now the gun user is putting their hand in the line of fire, pulling it away then firing from the hip! Yikes!

 

[BearHawk 357]

It is normally recomended that you should get the 38 special dies if you want to load both 38 and 357. This will ensure a higher level of safety when loading your ammo. You wouldn't want to goof up a perfectly good set of dies by messing around with them too.

Anyway, shoot me a PM if you would be interested in selling both of your dies (38 & 44 special). That way you can just run out and get a new set what you need without spending any more money. Just an idea. I need both of the dies that you have. Sounds like a win-win situation to me.

 

[WANT A LCR 22LR]

Thanks for the info, I'll keep you in mind. I'm going to pass them around the area first. ( gun sale this weekend )

 

[Bearlaker]

It seems like I read somebodies description of using wax to make blanks. I'll try to find it.

 

[Bearlaker]

This isn't what I was thinking of, but you get the drift.
What are wax bullets?
Wax bullets are pretty much what they sound like. We make a bullet out of wax, push it into the shell, then put a shotshell primer (shotgun primer) or .22 blank into the other end. To explain that better, the shells we use for wax have been specially counter-sunk where the normal primer hole is to accept a shotshell primer. If a .22 blank is used, then a special shell must be built that doesn't have a normal flash-hole, but has a special counter-sunk hole off to the edge of the shell to fit a .22 blank. This special hole allows the center-fire action of the revolver to strike the rim of the .22 blank. Most people use the shotshell primers.

Wax is very easy to load and many people use nothing else for practise. You can load the six wax shells in a few seconds and shoot, then reload and shoot again. There are 4 or 5 companies making wax bullets. For safety reasons these are the only bullets that are allowed in competition. Many people make their own bullets for practise.
watch video Demonstration of loading Wax Bullets

Obtaining Wax Bullets & Shells: Two on-line wax bullet manufacturers are C&R Wax Bullets and Super Speed Wax Bullets. You can also check the C&R site for instructions on making your own shells for shotshell primers, or check the Custom Gun Works of the Single-Action Revolver by Bob Graham web site to purchase shotshell or .22 blank wax shells.
http://www.fastdraw.org/fd_faq.html

 

[WANT A LCR 22LR]

Thanks for the wax bullet info, might try some for target time.

 

[Jimbo357mag]

I have Lee 38special and 44special dies that I use to load 357mag and 44mag rounds. The instructions on those say to back the dies out about 2 turns and then adjust as needed. I would assume that if a 357mag die could be screwed down enough for a 38special shell and then adjusted without hitting the shell holder it would be ok. Give it a try.

As for blanks, I know you need to be careful because stuff comes flying out of the barrel even if you only use a primer. There is info out there, I just don't want to repeat anything that might be inaccurate. Maybe some others will share their knowledge about blanks.

...Jimbo

 

[revhigh]

It is normally recomended that you should get the 38 special dies if you want to load both 38 and 357. This will ensure a higher level of safety when loading your ammo.

Not to argue, but I totally disagree with the above statement. It is perfectly acceptable and expected to use 357 dies to reload 38 special rounds. There is absolutely no reason not to, and there is ZERO increased safety factor in not doing so.

Most die sets are labelled 357/38 special. It's simply a matter if die adjustment when using the 357 dies for 38 specials.

The only reason for having both sets that I can see is if you shoot a lot of both, you wouldn't have to re-adjust the dies when switching from one caliber to another.

REV

 

[Steve C]

Most dies are marked .38/.357 which means they're good for both cartridges. The sizing die will work fine once set up for either caliber. The case mouth expander and belling die will need adjustment when changing from one to the other. RCBS includes a washer with the thickness that makes the difference between the .38 and .357 so you set up for the .38 and put the washer in for the belling and seating operations. This saves having to adjust the lock rings when changing from one cartridge to the other. You could purchase a washer and flat grind it down to the right dimension or order from RCBS.

In some older sets that where .357 mag specific and that had the combined deprining and the case mouth belling on the number 2 die the insert was specific to caliber and the .357 mag insert being longer wouldn't properly bell a .38 spl case. The crimping portion of the crimp die was set back in some sets so that the .357 die wouldn't work for the .38 spl.

Lee's dies for the .38 spl and .357 mag are the same but the expander plug for the .357 mag is likely of diameter for jacketed bullets. The die set numbers are different since Lee provides caliber specific data and powder scoop that's different depending upon cartridge in the set.

 

[Jeff H]

As for blanks, I know you need to be careful because stuff comes flying out of the barrel even if you only use a primer.

I made some gluelets in 45acp a while back powered only by the primer. Shooting across the room, they would put a real good fracture and dent in the piece of 1/4" plywood I was using for a target. While they wouldn't go through, you could see a lot of splintered wood on the back side.

Gluelets are reusable too as long as you don't loose them.

 

[Shoot44]

I once asked a Tech at Lee's about why they sold both a set of dies numbered 357 Mag and a set numbered 38 Spec. (He had told me that they were the same dies.) His answer was: "well, some folks just seem to have to have a set with the "proper" numbers on them." And he laughed a little.
I use a set of Lee dies for both calibers, and they work perfectly. As mentioned, you do have to take into account the different lengths, either by re-setting the die depths, or using a washer.
My son used one set for both 44 Spec and 44 Mag by using a washer. He eventually got tired of messing with that, however, and simply bought another set, and another turret for his Lee Classic Turret press, and now has one set adjusted for the Specs and one for the Mags.

 

[Bucks Owin]

If you want to load both rounds, but don't want to have to mess with adjusting the expander/chamfer stem all the time, just buy an additional expander die....They aren't very pricey. :wink:

 

[revhigh]

If you want to load both rounds, but don't want to have to mess with adjusting the expander/chamfer stem all the time, just buy an additional expander die....They aren't very pricey. :wink:

What about the seating/crimping die ??

REV

 

[Aqualung]

My RCBS set came with a spacer that you use when setting up for .357 magnum. It pretty much works out that if it's good for the .38special, it works out with the .357 if the spacer is in place between the lock nut and press body.

As for an answer to Revigh, I'm always adusting the crimping and seating dies anyhow.

Aqulaung

 

[Bucks Owin]

What about the seating/crimping die ??

REV

Use .38 Spl for both with adjustment... :wink:

 

[Rclark]

What are wax bullets?

What I did back in the early 80s was use .38 cases with the primer hole drilled out (can't use for regular powder anymore). Then use a standard pistol primer. The wax came from the grocery store called 'paraffin' which came in handy blocks 1/2" thick. Just press the shell through the brick and voila you had a wax bullet seated in the cartridge. The primer was enough to send the wax bullet on it's way. Anyway that's how I did it back then.... Obviously this wouldn't be good in places like Phoenix as your wax would melt in the heat , but up here in Montana I never had a problem.....

 

[Olsherm]

I have reloaded 38 sp & 357 mags on the same dies for years,you only have to adjust the dies for each caliber. All you need to do to make blanks or shoot wax bullets is to drill out the primer hole just a little and use standard primers. Works great. I do not remember the size of the drill bit but I can find out if you need it. I have some in 44 spl and have shot wax bullets in them. Works great. I read where a fellow bought sheets of thin wax and after he loaded his powder ect he just placed the sheet of waz over the case and press down for a disc of wax in the cartridge.

 

[WANT A LCR 22LR]

UPDATE:

I ended up finding a nice set of 38 dies. My press came with a extra die holder making caliber changes easy.

As for the wax bullets, some machine shops use" Machineable Wax" when developing programs for CNC machining centers. I bet this is the same wax. ( Crashing a machine is a big deal that at minimum knocks thing out of alignment. If the cutting tool crashes wax no damage is done. )

This usually can be purchased from MSC tool , ENCO , KBC Tool and many others )

 

[WANT A LCR 22LR]

On another board, someone was using soap as a plug when fire forming rifle brass. Anyone try shooting soap?