Unique vs. 800X for .44 mag 200gr. XTP bullets ?

[Mus408]

Looking at load data for 200 gr. XTP bullets in .44 Magnum and came across loads using 800X powder.
Would like to see 1000-1200 FPS out of a 4.25 inch barrel with these loads...low to moderate .44 Mag loading.
Have tested some rounds using 10.2 -11.2 Unique but due to an issue with my Chrony I was getting erratic numbers.... 300-1400 FPS.
How dose 800X powder perform compared to Unique?

I ran across some load data from the "Handloader Special Edition" magazine showing a good spread of 800 X powder from 10 to 17 gr. using the 200 gr. XTP bullet giving 900-1300 FPS. with a 4.25 barrel S&W 69.

Anyone try Unique or 800 X powders?

 

[wwb]

I've gone through a ton of each..... but in a shotgun. A 200 grain bullet is on the light side for a .44, so if you need to choose between the two, I'd go with Unique, as this chart shows it to be a bit faster than 800X. Faster powder for light bullets, and slow er powder for heavy bullets is a good general rule.

Here's the powder burn rate chart - doesn't include all brands, but it could be cross-referenced with other charts that are available and include brands not listed here:

https://loaddata.com/articles/PDF/Burn Rate Chart (New).pdf

 

[Slenk]

Universal works great for me.

 

[Rick Courtright]

I've gone through a ton of each..... but in a shotgun. A 200 grain bullet is on the light side for a .44, so if you need to choose between the two, I'd go with Unique, as this chart shows it to be a bit faster than 800X. Faster powder for light bullets, and slow er powder for heavy bullets is a good general rule.

Hi,

I was still deeply entrenched in the shotgun world when 800X came out, so that's where my experience with the stuff lies.

Everyone went gaga about the fact the books showed 1200 fps loads, a "standard" target load velocity, could be had at really low pressures, down in the 6,000 to 7,000 psi range, when the top of the 12 ga chart is normally at about 11,000 psi. Guys loaded them up, went out on the range, and had terrible results. To say they were "erratic" probably covers the main complaint Locally, it didn't take long for 800X to fall out of favor with the regular target shooting crowd.

OTOH, the guys loading heavier loads, such as our pot shooters and hunters, liked the stuff. It worked quite consistently. What was the difference?

Best we could determine was that, being a slower burning powder, 800X liked to be loaded at the higher end of the pressure scale, to get good ignition. The heavier shot charges helped attain that goal. The lighter ones apparently didn't "hold back" the ignition sequence well enough to do the same. One should remember a standard 209 shotshell primer has enough power to propel a 1 1/8 oz shot charge 5-10 feet out of a 30 inch shotgun barrel, so we've gotta offset that with some flame, otherwise things aren't going to go so well.

A lot of other field testing with the chronograph and pattern board showed that most of our popular shotgun/pistol powders worked best when loaded using recipes within about 90% to 100% of the SAAMI max. This in shotshells.

Moving to handgun cartridges, I've found that same 90% minimum pressure range seems to produce my own most desirable ammo. Others may have similar or quite different results. That's not surprising as we all know the same ammo in three different guns can produce three wildly different results!

So on the Unique vs 800x question, with a "lighter end of the scale" bullet for the caliber (say 180-200 gr?), I'd suggest the burn rate on Unique, being a touch faster than 800X, would be the better choice before seeing actual field results. Moving to a "standard" or heavier bullet for the .44, like in the 240-300 grain range, I'd be willing to bet 800X might start to shine. Figuring the .44 Mag limit is around 35,000 psi, I'd be looking thru the books for loads in the range of at least 30,000 psi if possible with the slower powders. At least for starters.

All this having been said, we're right back to the old "YMMV" disclaimer. Best of luck!

Rick C

 

[wwb]

..........
Everyone went gaga about the fact the books showed 1200 fps loads, a "standard" target load velocity, could be had at really low pressures, down in the 6,000 to 7,000 psi range, when the top of the 12 ga chart is normally at about 11,000 psi. Guys loaded them up, went out on the range, and had terrible results. To say they were "erratic" probably covers the main complaint Locally, it didn't take long for 800X to fall out of favor with the regular target shooting crowd.

OTOH, the guys loading heavier loads, such as our pot shooters and hunters, liked the stuff. It worked quite consistently. What was the difference?............

Yup. 1-1/8 oz handicap loads and sporting clays loads for those 50 yard crossers.... 800X is good stuff.

16 yard and most sporting clays.... 1 oz at 1200 fps with red dot or clays.

Skeet - 7/8 oz with Hodgdon Titewad.

 

[Mobuck]

When I was toting a SBH 4 5/8" as a chore gun, the Nosler 200 JHP loaded @ 1000-1100 fps was my usual load. Accurate, manageable, and effective.

 

[Ka6otm]

I've been using 800X for 20 Gauge 7/8 oz. 1,200 fps loads for years. Works great.

 

[Rick Courtright]

I've been using 800X for 20 Gauge 7/8 oz. 1,200 fps loads for years. Works great.

Hi,

Makes sense: compare the pressures for 20 ga loads (I'm using Hodgdon's website right now) and 12 ga 1 1/8 oz loads, using Win AA hulls for each. While they're not up to my personal "works best" 90% level, the 20 ga recipes still average quite a bit higher pressures than the 12s, so the powder's got a chance to light off in the smaller gauge much quicker (and more completely) than in the 12.

Rick C

 

[8emem]

After some experimentation for mid-range loads with 800X, I have settled on 11.0 - 12.0 grains with 240 gr SWC coated bullets for .44 mag. I don't have a chronograph. This range is narrow because I get a lot of un-burned particles below 11, yet above 12 recoil starts to feel pretty strong, without over-pressure indications. So I stopped there. I set my powder measure to throw 11.5 grains which it does about half the time, with the remainder varying as much as .3 grains either way due to the large flake size. I don't worry too much about the actual charge as it doesn't seems to affect accuracy and Hodgdon lists the maximum for this type of bullet somewhere over 13 gr. At one time I weighed the charges individually but by staying in the mid-range it didn't seem worth doing.

With 800X I recommend throwing a lot of charges and weighing them to see what the variances are, and then carefully work up. I let a friend of mine have some of this powder for his .44 mag but he started to see pressure signs before the un-burned particles went away, so he's not a fan of it.

Author Ken Waters published load data for many cartridges using 800X so if you can locate some of his publications that would be a good resource for more information.

 

[Divernhunter]

I love the 200gr HP bullet(Nosler or Hornady) and have taken deer/pigs and a very large(weight and B&C book) Black Bear with them. I have not used 800-X but have used a lot of Hi-Skor 700-X and unique in my 7.5" SBH and RH. I loaded both the 200gr jacketed bullets and 250gr hard cast ones I made. I use those powders for more mild loads and H-110 for hot loads. The 700-X was cleaner burning for me over the Unique.

 

[SAJohn]

When I first started reloading in the late 60's there were about 50 different smokeless powders on the market. Today there are over 200. I do not even want to think about how many different bullets are now on the market.

Early on Skeeter Skelton convinced me to develop a couple of bullet /powder loads for each of my firearms and stick with them. Through the years this has become increasingly difficult because the powders change (i.e. 2400 vs H-110) and so many different bullets are now available.

I am still trying my best, but somewhat failing, to give it the KISS treatment.

I do now use a chronograph for help rather than just "reading" primers and case expansion. The reloading manuals give a large range of different data and the maximum loads are now lawyer dictated.

My go to .44 magnum Keith bullet and Skelton powder load is now listed as above maximum; thankfully however my old model Ruger Super Blackhawk does not know this.

John

 

[Flyover_Country]

Looking at load data for 200 gr. XTP bullets in .44 Magnum and came across loads using 800X powder.
Would like to see 1000-1200 FPS out of a 4.25 inch barrel with these loads...low to moderate .44 Mag loading.
Have tested some rounds using 10.2 -11.2 Unique but due to an issue with my Chrony I was getting erratic numbers.... 300-1400 FPS.
How dose 800X powder perform compared to Unique?

I ran across some load data from the "Handloader Special Edition" magazine showing a good spread of 800 X powder from 10 to 17 gr. using the 200 gr. XTP bullet giving 900-1300 FPS. with a 4.25 barrel S&W 69.

Anyone try Unique or 800 X powders?

Yes, both, and with that exact bullet. I primarily used Hornady's 10th Edition manual as I used Hornady's bullets and the manual had information for both powders.

Unique is a somewhat dirty powder and not the easiest to meter due to its flake size/shape. Hornady's load data with Unique gives 1400 fps using 12.9 gr of that powder in a 7 1/2" Redhawk. I'd guess this is pretty close to 1100-1200 fps out of a 4 1/4" bbl revolver. This load is a pretty middle of the road load, not that much recoil (out of my 7 1/2" SRH) and minimal bang and no muzzle flash.

800X is a slower powder and has more power potential. It is notably cleaner than Unique but is difficult to meter as its flakes are even larger than Unique's. It however has the minimal bang and no flash that Unique does, and burns a lot cleaner and is quieter than similarly-performing loads with 2400. Hornady's load data with 800X at least with the 200 gr XTP is hot and grossly exceeds the loading with 240 grain bullets with 800X in any other manual. Hornady calls for 17.2 gr as a maximum for 1550 fps from a 7 1/2" bbl RH. The other manuals I have that have 240 grain JHP bullet and 800X loading data have a maximum of about 15 grains. 15 grains of 800X under a 240 grain XTP works fine and yields about 1500 fps from a 7 1/2" bbl. Hornady's max of 17.2 grains caused very sticky extraction and notable primer flattening out of my SRH.

I personally do not like 800X in the .44 due to the very poor metering and the general "touchiness" of it as you get away from minimum loads. It is however a great shotgun powder for midrange and heavy loads. Unique while dirty is a good midrange powder and 2400, while dirty, loud, and flashy is a predictable upper midrange to almost top-end powder and meters very well. I recently got a pound of Universal and will report back on that, but initial impressions are that it's a cleaner Unique with far less load data available.