Trimming?

Help Support Ruger Forum:

G-30

Bearcat
Joined
Jun 23, 2009
Messages
26
Location
Wa
How accurate is your case trimmer, I am trying to trim my .454 Casull cases to 1.373 with my Redding 2400 and the cases are coming out from 1.372 to 1.374 is this acceptable? A few came out 1.369 are these still ok to load or are they trash.

Thanks,

Stacey


Edited to fix Typo :oops:
 

Cholo

Moderator
Staff member
Moderator
Joined
Dec 30, 2008
Messages
5,969
Location
Georgia
Your extremes are way off! Your trimmer should be within a couple of thousands max. I had an RCBS trimmer that was all over the map. It didn't even make a good paper weight. Went to a cheap Lee trimmer and it was right on. I once had a Lee trimmer that was too far off and they sent me a replacement. It was accurate but trimmed the brass to far less than the recommend min. length. Don't trim a whole bunch of brass without checking its accuracy.

Your trimmer needs to accurate or your crimps will be all over the place. Not good, no...not at all.
 

Sharp Shooter

Single-Sixer
Joined
Nov 24, 2005
Messages
110
Location
MCCammon,Idaho,USA
Welcome G-30.
It's kinda hard to say what's going on, but I think think you're making some kind of mistake. Neither of my trimmers is a Redding, I have an old Forster and a newer Hornady, but I could set either of them to trim .454 Casull cases to 1.373" - exactly what my Speer manual calls for.
It's also kinda hard to say whether those cases you trimmed to 1.369 are still usable or not. I suspect they are. You'll just have to see for yourself if you can get a good crimp on them, into the crimping grooves or the channelures of the bullets you're using without having to seat those bullets any deeper than you do in the cases that are not trimmed too short. If you have to seat the bullets deeper, it's a whole new ballgame - you might have to reduce your loads.
It's not at all hard to say though that "1.734" measurement you stated in your post is a typo. What did you mean? 1.734" is better than 3/10" longer than the maximum .454 Casull case length. Holy Cow! Just giving you a bad time man - my fingers hit the wrong keys sometimes too. :lol:
 

G-30

Bearcat
Joined
Jun 23, 2009
Messages
26
Location
Wa
Sharp Shooter":1dj2wxmy said:
Welcome G-30.
It's kinda hard to say what's going on, but I think think you're making some kind of mistake. Neither of my trimmers is a Redding, I have an old Forster and a newer Hornady, but I could set either of them to trim .454 Casull cases to 1.373" - exactly what my Speer manual calls for.
It's also kinda hard to say whether those cases you trimmed to 1.369 are still usable or not. I suspect they are. You'll just have to see for yourself if you can get a good crimp on them, into the crimping grooves or the channelures of the bullets you're using without having to seat those bullets any deeper than you do in the cases that are not trimmed too short. If you have to seat the bullets deeper, it's a whole new ballgame - you might have to reduce your loads.
It's not at all hard to say though that "1.734" measurement you stated in your post is a typo. What did you mean? 1.734" is better than 3/10" longer than the maximum .454 Casull case length. Holy Cow! Just giving you a bad time man - my fingers hit the wrong keys sometimes too. :lol:

Yep typo it was 1.374 :oops: I just can't figure it out, it is a collet that grabs the case and it almost seems like it is not locking down in the same spot from case to case.

Stacey
 

Jimbo357mag

Hawkeye
Joined
Feb 22, 2007
Messages
10,184
Location
So. Florida
A mistake I make early-on when I started loading was trimming the cases before sizing them. They do grow considerably after sizing. :roll:

...Jimbo
 

Ruber

Single-Sixer
Joined
Sep 24, 2008
Messages
432
Location
San Diego, CA
G-30":1yiwimzi said:
it is a collet that grabs the case and it almost seems like it is not locking down in the same spot from case to case.

I have this sometimes when the rims are different sizes. My collet sits in a carrier that cams down on the rim and if the rims are different sizes the cam stops at different positions, and therefore, a different distance from the blade. Different headstamp brass will be ever so slightly different in the case dimensions and I also have found that certain headstamps have greater variability in this department.

Now, I tend to sort brass by my own measured dimensions, not just headstamps.
 

contender

Ruger Guru
Joined
Sep 18, 2002
Messages
21,423
Location
Lake Lure NC USA
Well, I use a Lyman with a universal collet,,, and I usually only trim my rifle cases. I have found that by setting the length adjustment about .003-.004 above the minimum length,,, I've never had "short" brass. By the time I chamfer the mouths,,, I have brass a few thousands longer than the minimum. But as mentioned above,,, the cases could have a few thousands differences in the head area, or the collet isn't always getting them the same way.
Do you deprime before or after trimming??? I have found that by resizing and depriming before trimming to be the best.
 

Rick Courtright

Hawkeye
Joined
Mar 10, 2002
Messages
7,863
Location
Redlands CA USA
Hi,

Just conjecture...

I use the Lee trimmers. I can "hand trim" by holding the shell holder and case in my hand or chucking it in the vise, and turning the cutter by hand. Or I can chuck the shell holder in a hand or electric drill, lock the cutter in the vise, and "power trim" them.

Each method produces different levels of precision:

Totally "freehand" can cover a range of 0.005"-0.006" (NOT good!)

"Hand trimming" w/ the shell holder in the vise brings 'em down to 0.003"-0.004" (Ok for blasting ammo)

Using a hand drill brings 'em in closer, at 0.002"-0.003", while the electric drill usually "nails 'em" between 0.001"-O.002"--depends on the brass--and I figure anything within a range of 0.002" is fine for my purposes (I'm not a bench rester or long range varmint shooter, so I don't get all that exited about dead nuts accuracy.)

Since just varying the technique produces such wide ranges for me, using the Lee tool that has fewer "variables" than the mini-lathe style tools, I'm gonna wonder out loud if it might be playing into your results? (I'm assuming you've already ensured your tool is "tight", clean, properly lubed and well secured when you're using it? And you trim AFTER depriming and resizing, of course.)

Rick C
 

G-30

Bearcat
Joined
Jun 23, 2009
Messages
26
Location
Wa
Ruber":1j9wv53g said:
G-30":1j9wv53g said:
it is a collet that grabs the case and it almost seems like it is not locking down in the same spot from case to case.

I have this sometimes when the rims are different sizes. My collet sits in a carrier that cams down on the rim and if the rims are different sizes the cam stops at different positions, and therefore, a different distance from the blade. Different headstamp brass will be ever so slightly different in the case dimensions and I also have found that certain headstamps have greater variability in this department.

Now, I tend to sort brass by my own measured dimensions, not just headstamps.

All the cases were Winchester but some were factory ammo and some was pre primed brass that I bought and loaded once, it did seem like some of the rims were slightly different so that is probably the problem.
 

G-30

Bearcat
Joined
Jun 23, 2009
Messages
26
Location
Wa
contender":vs9pscqt said:
Well, I use a Lyman with a universal collet,,, and I usually only trim my rifle cases. I have found that by setting the length adjustment about .003-.004 above the minimum length,,, I've never had "short" brass. By the time I chamfer the mouths,,, I have brass a few thousands longer than the minimum. But as mentioned above,,, the cases could have a few thousands differences in the head area, or the collet isn't always getting them the same way.
Do you deprime before or after trimming??? I have found that by resizing and depriming before trimming to be the best.


Yes I full length size and deprime before trimming, this is the first time I have trimmed so it could be something I am doing. I reload for my .458 Socom as well but have not had to trim yet.
 

islander

Bearcat
Joined
Feb 5, 2009
Messages
25
Location
Coral Gables Florida
I'm new to reloading but my first batch of 38 special deprimed and sized brass through the Forster trimmer gave varied results, definitely not the consistent trim lengths I was expecting. The variation resulting from how the case was held by the collet. The trick with these collet trimmers is to first insert the pilot into the case mouth, push and turn the pilot/cutter to sit the case in the collet, and tighten the collet as you turn the case. This ensures a dead-on consistency in the way the case sits on the collet bottom before the collet sides grab it. My cases came out with about 70% exactly to a thousandt and the remainders off by no more that .002", which is good enough. Also, occassionally clean the collet sometimes brass shavings get in the way and this will affect the trim length.

Given that a lot of reloaders do not trim, and cases have a manufacturing tolerance of 0.010", I think too much is made of exact trim length, even when you are crimping. But I do like exactness so my trimmer and calipers are put to work, but I'm not sure what to set my tolerance range at I'm thinking 0.005" is acceptable for my 38 special and 357 mag.
 

flatgate

Hawkeye
Joined
Jun 18, 2001
Messages
6,784
Location
Star Valley, WY
I've found a significant difference in accuracy when case lengths and the consequent difference in crimping occur. Of course I'm talking about "heavy for calibre" bullets driven at high (but no way maximum) velocities.

I've cured lots of handloaded ammo troubles by making certain my crimps are uniform and, depending on powder burning rates and bullet weights, my case lengths are uniform (which is a requirement to obtain a uniform crimp).

flatgate
 

islander

Bearcat
Joined
Feb 5, 2009
Messages
25
Location
Coral Gables Florida
Flatgate I'd be interested in knowing what you consider "uniform" for case lengths - what spread of dimension tolerance od you work with to obtain uniform crimps? Is 0.005" too much a spread?
 

paul s

Bearcat
Joined
Jun 25, 2009
Messages
68
Location
TN.
I have never and never will trim a handgun case in 30 years of reloading. Why trim them? I have shot 357, 38, 44mag, 44spc. with no problems, for constant crimp to use same brass brand and lot so there uniform. There handguns, not benchrest rifles!
 
Top