Traded a Ruger for an old War Horse

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Hashknife Hartley

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As Radical Rod recently said in a thread, "Ok, ya can't just buy Rugers" or something to that effect. I had this 10-22 Mag that I built up into a 22 Mag/17 HMR convertible for shooting prairie dogs with in the Flagstaff area, where I lived for over 30 years. Used a M77 in 257 Roberts but thought this would be a neat rifle to use. Trouble is, was, I moved out of Flagtown and down to Prescott about the time I got it done and shooting really good and never shot even one critter with it; it's just been sitting in the safe for over 6 years now. Figured I'd never get even close to my money out of it even if I put it back to stock, sold it and sold all the special parts. Here's a pic,
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Then, a former co-worker, hunting, fishing and drinking buddy called me and said a friend of his (he's in Tucson now) had an old 1911 that belonged to his father that he wanted to sell or trade off. His dad had been a pilot, starting in WW2 and serving also in Korea and Viet Nam, retired from the Military after a full career and this had been the pistol he carried through it all. It's a 1911 made in 1918, never arsenal refinished, all original down to the mag and has a Boyt 44 holster with it. It's one of the Colt's made in late in the War with the black finish and pretty rough machining. Pretty decent condition, but really needed cleaning, almost had to pry the mainspring housing out of it, looked like it was carried a lot but not shot too much. Here's some pics:
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I like 1911's, built myself several over the years and am really happy to have this one, with it's record of being in all the major conflicts prior to the latest middle east stuff. Probably will eventually trade it or sell it in order to obtain another collectable Ruger but until then, it'll have a good home in my gun safe. Figured I ought to put this thread in the Collectables area as the prices of these old WW1 and 2 1911's and 'A1's have went through the roof the last few years. I had a Union Switch and Signal 1911A1 back in the '70's that I wish I still had but it went by the wayside for Winchesters back then; hope to keep this one a little while at least.
HH
 

radicalrod

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HH, I got an old Commercial model 1911 on a trade for a MC deal hear last spring or fall heck I can't remember.....it was reblued but I still wanted it as it was made in 1922.....

Well my son has a few crazy buddies and one is getting married so they took him to a shooting range for his bachelor party....yes they are crazy....I loaned them a few guns and they loved the old beater 45..... several of the guys wanted to buy it.....

Well I gotta tell you how they collected their buddy for the party....they snuck in through the patio door that his fiance left open.....used a hand held stun gun on him.....used duct tape over his mouth and taped his hands behind his back....stuffed him in the back of a mini van then drove around hitting him with the stun gun for fun.....let him loose for the fun at the range then again hit him with the stun gun re taped him and transported him to dinner.....I am sure glad I don't have good friends like these guys :lol: :lol: :lol: RR
 
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HH, that is a NICE old Colt and love the holster (Is the holster dated on the back or inside?),gun does appear to be all original, including the grips but I question that magazine with the numbers on the bottom, it is a later one I think you will find out....the WWI mags were all two tone ( bare metal top of the mag,bottom is finished) and if no markings like the early ones, the later WWI mags were marked A,B,L, or R on the top of the lip.....the one in your picture is a replacement,surplus mag................no big deal, as the old mags are out there to be found, though some are getting a bit 'pricy'...you can check in Charles Clawson book for more detailed info as to the mags....NICE gun, and its worth quite a bit of money
Merry Christmas !!!
 

GasGuzzler

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Someone close to me sold one like that (from 1914 as I remember) with an almost identical holster. You don't want to know how little he got for it. The year was about 2006.
 

Hashknife Hartley

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Dewey, Arizona USA
Hey, thanks for the info on the mag Rugerguy, now I know kind of what to look for. I've got Kunhausen's book on the 1911 for building them and only a very limited bunch of basic type books for references, so will also look for the Clawson book. The holster has the 44 on the back, got a pic if you want to see it. What I wish I still had was a Union Switch and Signal WW2 one that I bought for $250 back in the early '70's and sold a few years later for $250, it was really nice; they're going for $2K plus now. Been there, done that on the crazy stuff RR, don't want to do it anymore in my old age. That 1914 one would really be getting into the bucks GasGuzzler, the older they get the more they go up.
HH
 
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yep, a NICE US&S is going for MORE than that today, and your gun pictured is pushing the $1800-2000 range these days...yes, the holster will have a maker AND a year stamped on the back, top or middle just above the belt holder.....ALL kids of makers, Boyt, Sears, and on and on...........
Maybe '
Splitz' will 'add' a comment or two, he's had a "few" of these 1911 & A1 over the years....... :roll: :wink:
 

RugerHound

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radicalrod said:
HH, I got an old Commercial model 1911 on a trade for a MC deal hear last spring or fall heck I can't remember.....it was reblued but I still wanted it as it was made in 1922.....

Well my son has a few crazy buddies and one is getting married so they took him to a shooting range for his bachelor party....yes they are crazy....I loaned them a few guns and they loved the old beater 45..... several of the guys wanted to buy it.....

Well I gotta tell you how they collected their buddy for the party....they snuck in through the patio door that his fiance left open.....used a hand held stun gun on him.....used duct tape over his mouth and taped his hands behind his back....stuffed him in the back of a mini van then drove around hitting him with the stun gun for fun.....let him loose for the fun at the range then again hit him with the stun gun re taped him and transported him to dinner.....I am sure glad I don't have good friends like these guys :lol: :lol: :lol: RR

Rod - You sure that wasn't a 1% biker initiation? ;) Man they play rough!
 

radicalrod

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Well the man of honor was also just accepted into pilot school and I think the rest are ex military of some sort.....funny what kind of riff raff one finds riding motorcycles :lol: :lol: :lol: My son was never in the military service but they still give him a little respect as they can not keep up with him when they ride :!: :!: :!:

HH, man I feel your pain on the U S & S........RR.
 

HAWKEYE#28

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It remains my understanding that the Clawson book(s) are out of print. Hard to understand, as the drive and desire for these 1911's has indeed gone viral over the past ten years or so. I am very fortunate in my pursuits and also for not horsetrading them off for 256 Hawkeyes. Recently found a 4xxxxx frame(Last month of WWI) with a minty series 70 22 conversion unit on top. Bird dogged until I won it. Price was right, and for the uninitiated, the early 1911 frames are more than virtually nonexistent.............HH, you have a real prize there. Would love to share a story over a beer, on a similar 1911 that traveled with it's OSI staff member in the very early days of WWII in the far east. While a bonafide WWI gun, it was not a WWII issue. Rather, it was a gift from the owner's Father, a barber who bought it from a customer to "arm" his son who went to war..............There are lots of blacked out areas on the owner's military history record, so one assumes the gun saw some interesting stuff........ Yes, I have quite a love affair with these 1911's, along with WBR's goods 8) 8) :wink:
 
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Splitz got that right, wish they did have a reprint, maybe they are trying to make the 'Clawson' book a "collectible"?? ( you should see some fo the prices for the BIG book or the smaller, condensed version)......main thing though is ALL the info/data as to the markings, etc will tell one of the proper, original set up as to the 1911 and A1....there are LOTS , and LOTS of markings, proof marks, inspectors initials to let you know if any and all the parts are "Original,,,,must remember MANY of ANY military firearms, have gone through inspection, training, use, and once out in the field, they are subject to rebuilt, service & repair by every armorer, who served in every branch of any given service........then after any war, subject to rebuild, by the various arsenals around the country....then how about any that have been reimported from any "lend lease" program...we send these things all around the globe........so LOTS to know, LOTS to look for and the TRUE collectors value and pricing is again, based on "original"..............we've had LOTS of them rebuilt and shipped a out by the DCM, through the NRA, and even 'fresh" rebuilds" used in competition at Camp Perry back in the 60's.....such as the US Air Force Premium Grade guns, these will be marked "AFPG" on the slides and frame of the gun....these guns are over $3000 by themselves.... Heck I remember having at one time, a Singer that was rebuilt, reissued and "marked" for service in WWII, Korea and was reissued to my buddy in Viet Nam !!! WIsh we had that one today :shock: so yes, HH, your NICE WWI is quite a find and one to be proud of and make a center for ANY collection, as well as the history & provenance behind it............................for some it would be a family heirloom :wink:
 

radicalrod

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Just got a new CLAWSON book with all of his latest info.....not too hard to find...just use GOOGLE....

Mine says third edition with new appendix....2004 print date...RR.
 

eveled

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What a cool old gun. Too many guns become seperated from their history, please be sure to document as much of the story as possible. Ed
 

Hashknife Hartley

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Talking about a family heirloom, I don't know why this guy let this one go, I'd never sell it if my father had carried it through all those years and wars; but I'm not him. These "Black Army's", that's what the Standard Catalog of Military Firearms calls them, my only real reference on the early ones right now, are only marked with an eagle over a number just above the mag release button and this one is S17; don't have any idea what that signifys. May put it on my permanent list in the safe, however, my uncle has already hit me up for it.
HH
 

radicalrod

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Well it appears I just got lucky as not many to be found....I got it from Scott a Duff Publications....724 327 8246

Cost was 141.95 shipped bought 7/9/2012.....good luck....RR.

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then there is the BIG book...................


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the BIG book goes into all the 'DETAILS................ :wink:



Gosh, wonder what THAT is worth............. :roll:



Merry Christmas..........................
 

HAWKEYE#28

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Well, in defense of "Le Checkbook", there are other texts. There are two printings of Goddards' "The Government Models"; Scott Meadows has an out of print book and a subsequent second volume on the Government's military handguns; and the most current is a 500 page plus book, "The Model 1911 and Model 1911A1 Military and Commercial Pistols" by Joe Poyer ($35+/-, AIR) Jesse Harrison's book, ringlet bound, "US Pistols and Revolvers 1909-1945" is another worthwhile text. I have 'em all and most are availble from Amazon, amongst others, w/exception being the "large" Clawson text which will run $300 or more, usually more...............And the first Meadows' text. Stalwarts: Remember: "Books are your Friends" 8)
 

eveled

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Hashknife Hartley said:
Talking about a family heirloom, I don't know why this guy let this one go, I'd never sell it if my father had carried it through all those years and wars; but I'm not him. These "Black Army's", that's what the Standard Catalog of Military Firearms calls them, my only real reference on the early ones right now, are only marked with an eagle over a number just above the mag release button and this one is S17; don't have any idea what that signifys. May put it on my permanent list in the safe, however, my uncle has already hit me up for it.
HH

I wouldn't sell it if I owned it. If it was my Dad's, no way in HELL I'd ever part with it. Ed
 
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