The New Vaquero will take +P 45 Loads per Ruger(do not try)

[tek4260]

ATTENTION: This Thread's Title is MISLEADING! flatgate

:shock: :shock: :shock: This is a message that a fellow member sent me. He was curious what loads to shoot in the New Vaquero and was checking to see if I had found any based on one of my topics here about a self defense load for the New Vaquero. This is a copy of what Ruger sent him in response to his email request:

tek: I just received info from Ruger on the New Model Vaquero. Doesn't tell us much more than we already know.
Arnold

I am torn between purchasing the New Model Blackhawk or the New Model Vaquero 45 lc, so here is my question: What would be the maximum operational pressure for the New Model Vaquero? To clear up any confusion by new, I mean from 2005 to now.I will be using Keith 270 Gr leadhead bullets with unique,or 2400 powder. I really would like the vaquero if it can take the pressure. thank You. Arnold Stuart Response: All of our firearms are designed to handle all US Industry Standard Ammunition made to SAMMI Spec. including the +P. If you need further information, please visit our website at www.ruger.com or contact us at: Revolvers, shotguns, rifles, 10/22 Charger Pistol: (603) 865-2442Pistols: (928) 778-6555Serial Number History Information: (603) 865-2424 Please note: This e-mail is sent from a notification-only address that cannot accept incoming e-mail. Please do not reply to this message. Sincerely,Ruger Firearms


Just thought ya'll would get a kick out of that. If I didn't know any better, I would think they are saying the New Vaquero will safely handle +P 45 Colt loads.

 

[Ruger Packer]

Just thought ya'll would get a kick out of that. If I didn't know any better, I would think they are saying the New Vaquero will safely handle +P 45 Colt loads.

Well... you can test it. If we don't hear back from ya, we'll assume you blew your hand..... or head..... off. :roll:

 

[c.r.]

you know, i'm not clear on that one. Not to slight any person, but this would fall into my "trust, but verify" category. My first step would be to contact some of the manufactuers making these +P loads and aske them directly.

This is kind of related (or at least in my mind). If you look in the Lyman 49th reloading manual. There is not a "Ruger/TC Only" section. It is a "TC Only" section. I'm not sure if these are actually Ruger/TC loads and Lyman dropped the Ruger part to prevent confusion and people firing them in a Ruger New Vaquero.......... or if they are truly TC only loads. I'm mainly talking about loads for cartridges like the 45Colt.

 

[eric conrad]

I wonder what manual these +P45colt loads are coming out of?
Eric

 

[Boxhead]

Get out your mic's, do a bit of measuring, crunch the numbers and compare to others and the answer is there. When done I load my mid-frame OM Ruger 45 Colt conversion to no more 20 kpsi...

 

[tek4260]

I know better than to shoot +P in my New Vaquero. I realize it was redesigned to compete with the Colt clones in Cowboy Action. I just don't think their cut and paste answer was appropriate especially since he stated New Vaquero and specified 2005 and up model.

 

[outlaw_dogboy]

Interesting. This would not contradict work that I understand Brian Pearce did with the New Vaquero.

 

[J Miller]

Arnold Stuart Response: All of our firearms are designed to handle all US Industry Standard Ammunition made to SAMMI Spec. including the +P.

First of all, unlike the 38 Special there is no SAAMI +P specs for the .45 Colt.

That is a generic response given to these questions.

Contact CorBon, Buffalo Bore, and Grizzly and ask them if the New Vaquero will handle their +P loads. The answer is NO.

To decide that the New Vaquero will handle the Ruger T/C loads just because it says Ruger on the frame is stupid. The New Vaquero is in the same pressure category as the Colt SAA and other copies.

The steel to make it withstand the Ruger only loads is just NOT THERE.
Here is a scan that shows the difference between a New Vac size cylinder and full sized Black Hawk cylinder. Yes, the cylinder is an Uberti cylinder, but it is the same size +/- a few thousands as the New Vaquero cylinder and clearly shows the size difference.

By all means give it a try, and do post the results if you have enough fingers to type it out.

Joe

 

[wolfee]

tek, there is nothing in your cut 'n paste from Ruger that states they will shoot .45 Colt+P loads. It does say they will shoot any SAAMI +P loads. However, there are NO SAAMI +P load in existance. SAAMI does show a .45 Auto +P at 23,000, but any and all +P loaded in .45 Colt are the ammo manufactureres designation. Your post heading is misleading and should be removed.

 

[Pal Val]

With all said, all I can ask is that you let the people around you at the range know you will be shooting +P loads in that revolver. That will give them a chance to go away before the KABOOM.

 

[tek4260]

I guess some people are too busy thinking I am a dumba$$ and tripping over themselves to make excuses for Ruger on this one. They need to do a better job of answering the question. It was a very direct question with a half a$$, dangerous answer. Re-read the post. If I or someone else didn't know better thru information gathered here and at like sources, Rugers response could be easily misunderstood. I have read the question and response from Ruger several times. They plainly state that all their firearms are made to handle SAMMI spec ammo INCLUDING +P. I have a box of CorBon 300gr JSP 45 Colt +P. I know better than to feed it that. But what if I didn't know, like alot of people. In the answer given above, they state +P. The CorBon is labeled +P.

I will get off my high horse now.

 

[wolfee]

Your point well taken. Thanks for the edit.

 

[Arnold Stuart]

tek: I am glad that you posted the reply I received from ruger, we both know that the answer I received regarding the +p has got to be erroneous, all I really wanted was what operating pressure the New Model vaquero would take, I even gave them a load that I wanted to use, but did not specify what max. grns of powder to use to reach a safe level, Of course thats what I wanted them to tell me , knowing darn well that they would't, I am not going to be the one to blow my head off with their response. Someday, someone needs to do a destructive test on this gun, as I know there are several of us that would like some answers. So untill then, I guess I will buy a blackhawk.

Arnold

 

[andyo5]

I know better than to shoot +P in my New Vaquero. I realize it was redesigned to compete with the Colt clones in Cowboy Action. I just don't think their cut and paste answer was appropriate especially since he stated New Vaquero and specified 2005 and up model.

I think that Ruger made a mistake and did us a disservice when they redesigned the Vaquero and kept the same name, because the new gun can't stand the same loads as the old one. Now, you have to figure out whether you have an "Old Vaquero" or a "New Vaquero". They should have given the redesigned, lighter gun a different name. Hopefully they have stamped the name New Vaquero on the barrel or frame.

 

[Jimbo357mag]

quote> All of our firearms are designed to handle all US Industry Standard Ammunition made to SAMMI Spec. including the +P end quote

That is the key. There are no SAMMI 45colt+P loads.

...just my opinion, Jimbo

 

[flatgate]

Now, you have to figure out whether you have an "Old Vaquero" or a "New Vaquero". They should have given the redesigned, lighter gun a different name. Hopefully they have stamped the name New Vaquero on the barrel or frame.

I guess you have zero "first hand" knowledge of the topic at hand.

Ruger's large framed, fixed sight Single Actions are rollmarked Vaquero.

Ruger's medium framed, fixed sight Single Actions are rollmarked New Vaquero.

I'll never understand the "confusion" surrounding the two models.

And, back to the topic at hand..... as posted Ruger approves SAAMI spec ammo. Period. Again, I cannot understand why there is any confusion here.

flatgate

 

[J Miller]

Now, you have to figure out whether you have an "Old Vaquero" or a "New Vaquero". They should have given the redesigned, lighter gun a different name. Hopefully they have stamped the name New Vaquero on the barrel or frame.

I guess you have zero "first hand" knowledge of the topic at hand.

Ruger's large framed, fixed sight Single Actions are rollmarked Vaquero.

Ruger's medium framed, fixed sight Single Actions are rollmarked New Vaquero.

I'll never understand the "confusion" surrounding the two models.

And, back to the topic at hand..... as posted Ruger approves SAAMI spec ammo. Period. Again, I cannot understand why there is any confusion here.

flatgate

I guess there are just some that cannot live with simplicity. They have to complicate things for some reason.

Joe

 

[NewVaquero]

maybe you fellas know something i dont, but i thought id chime in


before buying my new model vaquero 45 colt, i did alot of online research and reading about the gun. all i ever found was that the new vaquero 45 was sort of a weak suck, and couldnt handle much more than black powder pressure loads. somehow , i fund that hard to believe.

i got a wild hair and decided to call ruger directly. firstly, i spoke to a gentlemen down there, but for the ife of me i cant remeber the guys name. we spent about 1/2 hour on the phone discussing the new model vaquero and what types of amunition can be fired in it. he said while ruger doesnt advocate the use of reloads in any of there firearms, that the new model vaquero is well suited to handle all regular factory loads,including +P AND +P+. i told him had read all of this stuff online saying that the gun couldnt handle those sort of pressures. re replied that rugers 45 proof loads were ABOVE 45 colt +P+ pressures, and he assured me that the new model vaquero can handle it.

then, the next day, i called to ask them another question on the subject, because someone else trying to prove a point (i guess) stated that he had fired ammunition in his new model vaquero,1 round of buffalo bore and the frame twisted and the headspace changed considerably. i got ahold of a very nice lady by the name of tina (very nice lady by the way )for about 40 minutes.she told me that buffalo bore and a couple other manufacturers ammunition was WELL ABOVE +P+ pressures and SHOULD NOT BE USED , BUT the new model vaquero was rated to handle +P and +P+ without any issues


now, let me ask you this. who would you trust under the circumstances?.what you have read online, or what the manufactuer tells you?

i wouldnt figure that they would want to give you any misinformation,seeing that if they did it could cause them one big lawsuit of the gun was to blow up and someone was to get hurt.

now, im not saying the new model vaquero can handle nuke powered loads or anything, but i have personally loaded up stuff myself that was high end pressure side from a well known online manual and powder manufacure,using there online load database and fired them without any problems whatsoever.

 

[J Miller]

NewVaquero,

Welcome to the forum.


I have been loading the .45 Colt for over 30 years, and to my knowledge there is no SAAMI specs for .45 Colt +P or +P+ ammo.
Did the Ruger people you talked to attach a pressure figure to their vague +P or +P+ level ammo?

For Ruger to say that the New Vaquero is proofed for +P and +P+ ammo, then say that the CorBon ammo is too hot a load is contradictory and confusing at best.

There is no question that the New Vaquero can handle more than standard pressure, but so can the modern Colts or Ubertis.
The fact still exists that the New Vaquero's cylinder frame and cylinder is smaller than the Vaqueros and therefor simply cannot be as strong.

Joe

 

[Rick Courtright]

I think that Ruger made a mistake and did us a disservice when they redesigned the Vaquero and kept the same name, because the new gun can't stand the same loads as the old one.

Hi,

I'd have to say a lot of people miss the entire point...

Ruger, like many mfrs, has always specified FACTORY ammo and advised AGAINST the use of reloads in any of their literature I've seen.

One of the main reasons is handloaders have a tendency to think they "know better" than the folks who make the guns or make ammo for a living, and nobody knows what kind of product they'll turn out: good, safe ammo, or something more akin to an IED?

If ANYONE has done a disservice, it's the folks who've published these "Ruger Only" loads which make some believe were approved by Ruger. They're not. In ANY of their guns. Anyone who loads and shoots 'em does so at their own risk.

Stick w/ SAAMI spec loads and you should have no trouble. Exceed them, and you've started a crapshoot. It's a simple concept.

Rick C