The gunslinger effect

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mexicanjoe

Single-Sixer
Joined
Jun 7, 2010
Messages
343
Location
midland/odessa,texas
I have to agree that muscle memory is something that you can improve on. I remember one night pulling over a local doper who was beating his wife inside the car. He was rumored to carry a 9mm pistol ( A felon cant posses a firearm in Texas) . As I stepped up to the driver window he attempted to open the door and knock me off my feet. I clearly remember his eyes going WIDE open! It seemed like 30 minutes, but it was more like 5 seconds, when I wondered why he didnt move...... I looked down and noticed I have drawn my Colt 1911 from my holster, swiped the safety off and had placed my finger on the trigger, and had it pointing at his think head WITH OUT REALIZING IT! I attribute this to the many hours of dry firing at the range and and as an instructor.
Long story short, a couple of young men on their way home saw the commotion, stopped and assisted in gently placing the aforementioned subject on the ground and allowed him to model my nice handcuffs. All this is to say that muscle memory is a huge asset, something I learned when I spoke to Mr Bill Jordan (RIP) on the phone many years ago....Just mu 2 cents!
 
Joined
Apr 2, 2014
Messages
1,554
I never have met a co worker who hated to go to court, it's easy money and just part of the job. If it's to be held on days during vacation or training they get reset. When I worked in traffic, I had court dates set only on my days off. OT earned on everyone. Working nights all court (criminal and traffic) was also on OT. Twist my arm and pay me OT to sit around waiting to tell my side.
Bet sometimes they even had doughnuts ..........
 

JackBull

Bearcat
Joined
Dec 3, 2021
Messages
38
Correct. Law enforcement is NOT on your side. They do not care who is right or wrong, its not part of their job. They lock everyone up and let the atty's and court figure it out. YOU will be treated as a criminal, count on it!
1) True leo’s are on their own side
2) They often do care who is involved, they protect those they know and those politically connected. In my case they even lied in court about their own evidence!
3) They do not lock everyone up! When I told they I wanted to press charges, they told me that THEY press charges, not me.
4) You will be treated as a criminal, especially if they are protecting someone.
 
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jimbo1096

Buckeye
Joined
Jan 10, 2005
Messages
1,920
Location
Alexandria, LA USA
Bohr suggested that the most logical conclusion to a gunfight would be a peaceful settlement.
Sun Tzu in the Art of War stated the same thing long before...
  • Lesson 6: The Best Way to Win Is Not to Fight At All.
Sounds like what the WOPR computer at NORAD found out in the movie "War Games"
 

Snake Pleskin

Buckeye
Joined
Mar 26, 2022
Messages
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Location
Aiken, South Carolina
Sounds like what the WOPR computer at NORAD found out in the movie "War Games"
Sun Tzu also said that the battle is won before it is fought. Meaning if you have not gone through what will happen etc planned for all the contingencies, X factors etc do not fight. The fight should be anti climatic, the result of the planning done before hand.
 

Snake Pleskin

Buckeye
Joined
Mar 26, 2022
Messages
1,419
Location
Aiken, South Carolina
Actually studies show you are a faster draw when pulling your gun in response to someone drawing on you.
Studies have also found that many people, including trained people, often miss at close range. Nothing is certain in a gun fight. Spent several years with DOD/DIA DSE etc overseas taking out the garbage. Never had to "draw" my weapon against an assailant. We worked in two's or three's and always waited for an advantage. It isn't Hollywood. There is nothing glorious or honorable about it. It's just a job that needs to be done, because some one else failed in theirs. When negotiations break down that is when they ask Jason Bourne to fix it.
 

Snake Pleskin

Buckeye
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Aiken, South Carolina
How does that works, Make sense...
Being able to respond and still come up top, that would be really fast.
because you are in the act of actually drawing, everything is clicking on high speed etc, where the other person has to see that you are drawing and the brains has to take it in and process it and then produce a response. that is why you see people on TV disarming an assailant with a handguns etc. It is the difference in processing what is transpiring. however, nothing is guaranteed.
 

island boy

Bearcat
Joined
Jan 19, 2018
Messages
5
The theory is flawed. It doesn’t take into account training and muscle memory.

Read the last paragraph. As a martial artist and a shooter, I find this whole study/concept interesting...

"The comparison between reaction times and deliberate movement speed has applications for sports and dueling.[14] A 2014 study conducted with two groups, karate practitioners and people without karate training, found that reactions were faster than intentional movements, regardless of training.[15] "​
 

Snake Pleskin

Buckeye
Joined
Mar 26, 2022
Messages
1,419
Location
Aiken, South Carolina
Read the last paragraph. As a martial artist and a shooter, I find this whole study/concept interesting...

"The comparison between reaction times and deliberate movement speed has applications for sports and dueling.[14] A 2014 study conducted with two groups, karate practitioners and people without karate training, found that reactions were faster than intentional movements, regardless of training.[15] "​
If we look hard enough we can find a "study" to support anything we want. Of course we tend to believe the "studies" that support our own personal view on the subject! : )
 

island boy

Bearcat
Joined
Jan 19, 2018
Messages
5
That is wonderful....for those who have the time, money and dedication to pursue and perfect those skills to the point they are muscle memory or motor skills or whatever the words of the day may be. I don't and don't know many who do.

One skill I learned when I took my one training class (I mean to take more, but time, $$, covid, etc. has delayed) was to learn to dry fire.

You can literally sit at home with an unloaded firearm, draw, shoot, holster, repeat. Thousands of times. Costs... nothing. Not even ammo. You can see flinching, get muscle memory on draw/shoot/holster, practice threat assessment, clear your house (make sure your family isn't home or you'll freak them out, lol) - etc. Use your imagination.

Do that 10,000x, and your range time w/ ammo will have improved.
 

Snake Pleskin

Buckeye
Joined
Mar 26, 2022
Messages
1,419
Location
Aiken, South Carolina
One skill I learned when I took my one training class (I mean to take more, but time, $$, covid, etc. has delayed) was to learn to dry fire.

You can literally sit at home with an unloaded firearm, draw, shoot, holster, repeat. Thousands of times. Costs... nothing. Not even ammo. You can see flinching, get muscle memory on draw/shoot/holster, practice threat assessment, clear your house (make sure your family isn't home or you'll freak them out, lol) - etc. Use your imagination.

Do that 10,000x, and your range time w/ ammo will have improved.
I remember a quote attributed to Bruce Lee, something like this. " I am not afraid of the man who knows ten thousand kicks, I am afraid of the man who knows one Kick and practices it 10,000 times!"
 

island boy

Bearcat
Joined
Jan 19, 2018
Messages
5
If we look hard enough we can find a "study" to support anything we want. Of course we tend to believe the "studies" that support our own personal view on the subject! : )

If you've done any CAS/SASS you've seen people run and gun pretty fast. That's also muscle memory. Now, those people are prepared to shoot. But I wouldn't want to go up against a little 'ol lady and her .38/.357 lever action... ping ping ping! :)
 

Snake Pleskin

Buckeye
Joined
Mar 26, 2022
Messages
1,419
Location
Aiken, South Carolina
If you've done any CAS/SASS you've seen people run and gun pretty fast. That's also muscle memory. Now, those people are prepared to shoot. But I wouldn't want to go up against a little 'ol lady and her .38/.357 lever action... ping ping ping! :)
Yes , I belonged to SASS. However, from Evil Roy on down, everyone had modified short stroke carbines and heavily worked pistols to get that performance.
 

Biggfoot44

Blackhawk
Joined
Sep 6, 2009
Messages
799
I have to agree that muscle memory is something that you can improve on. I remember one night pulling over a local doper who was beating his wife inside the car. He was rumored to carry a 9mm pistol ( A felon cant posses a firearm in Texas) . As I stepped up to the driver window he attempted to open the door and knock me off my feet. I clearly remember his eyes going WIDE open! It seemed like 30 minutes, but it was more like 5 seconds, when I wondered why he didnt move...... I looked down and noticed I have drawn my Colt 1911 from my holster, swiped the safety off and had placed my finger on the trigger, and had it pointing at his think head WITH OUT REALIZING IT! I attribute this to the many hours of dry firing at the range and and as an instructor.
Long story short, a couple of young men on their way home saw the commotion, stopped and assisted in gently placing the aforementioned subject on the ground and allowed him to model my nice handcuffs. All this is to say that muscle memory is a huge asset, something I learned when I spoke to Mr Bill Jordan (RIP) on the phone many years ago....Just mu 2 cents!
My fastest draw I've ever done , I never noticed at the time . The gun just appeared in my hand pointed at the felon , without my thinking about it .
 

Snake Pleskin

Buckeye
Joined
Mar 26, 2022
Messages
1,419
Location
Aiken, South Carolina
My fastest draw I've ever done , I never noticed at the time . The gun just appeared in my hand pointed at the felon , without my thinking about it .
The fastest draw I ever had was one I never had to make. When with DOD/DIA/DSE, was within arms distance and my hand in my pocket on my custom 640, I would just shot through the pocket. Still remember the surprised look on his face. Same piece as the famous photo in Nam. Old school. But old age & treachery will conquer youth & speed every time!IMHO
 

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