Super Bisley 45 Colt, would you like to have it?

[Onty]

Proposing NM Super Blackhawk Bisley (or even better, Super Bisley) chambered in 45 Colt, with following characteristics:

- 5 bore, same configuration as Ruger 454 and 480 New Model Super Blackhawk Bisley
- Same steels and finish
- Barrel twist 1 in 16"
- Barrel lengths 4.62" and 6.50"

I couldn't find option for a poll (would like to put: barrel 4.62", barrel 6.50", both 4.62" and 6.50"). If one of moderators can do that, please make a poll for all 3 possibilities. Better yet, barrel 4.62" and barrel 6.50", but both options could be checked. Until then, please post only if you want this revolver, so we can see how many members here would like to have one of them, or both.

So, Onty: Super Bisley 45 Colt, barrel 6.50"

If I am not mistaken, we have here a member from Lipsey's. I wish if he can comment this proposal. I bet noted revolvers will be one of best selling on the market. Will grab one in a heartbeat..

 

[Rclark]

Not for me. The standard .45 Colt will do the job for anything I'll run up against here in the lower 48. And the standard factory NM .45 Colt is already a 'super'. BTW 5 1/2" is the 'proper' barrel length ... for me . Ha. That said, I am sure some would jump on it.

 

[BearBiologist]

My OM Blackhawk suffices for me with hot hard cast handloads.

 

[rammerjammer]

Nope, not interested. I prefer my 44 Special single actions. If I really need to step up in caliber I'd prefer a 44 Mag or 454.

 

[Onty]

I don't need, or even don't like guns like LCR, Blackhawk, 357 Magnum 8 shot Redhawk, 9mmx19 GP100, never mind plastic semiauto pistols, especially with striker. However, I respect others and their preferences, and if somebody is writing about those, that is fine with me, I just ignore those threads.

My point is if we all write replies expressing our dislike of certain guns, forums will be flooded with those posts. Some moons ago I did the same, and after moderator removed my post, after thinking more about what I had done, I must admit that moderator was right.

All the best...

 

[DRAM40A1]

I have a 6.5" SBH 454. I'm not sure why I would need a 5 shot 45 Colt but what's need have to do with it. I want mine BLUED and 4.62"!

 

[Paul B]

A few years back Ross Seyffried wrote an article on what he thought was the best choice for those who wanted a powerful hunting handgun but could not afford one one the "custom" jobs used by most gunwriters and the affluent. His thought was just buy a Ruger Super Blackhawk Bisley with the 5.5" barrel and call it good. He stated the gun was more than strong enough to use John Linebaugh's load data and truth be told, I think he was right. I'd probably suggest having a trigger job/tune up done but otherwise leave it alone.

Cruisin' a gun show on day a few years back I came across just such a Bisley an ended up getting it for a decent price. Barrel was the recommended 5.5" and a sort of trigger job had been done. I shot the gun reasonably well, for me anyway so run a few Linebaugh level loads through the gun and they shot well. Recoil is stout but the Bisley grip seems to handle it well. I have several Ruger Super Blackhawks in .44 magnum and the Bisley version is a lot more comfortable for me using Elmer's load of 22.0 gr. 2400 and a 250 gr. SWC bullet.
Paul B.

 

[hittman]

Not my caliber preference.
Not my ideal platform.
I'm out.

 

[seasterl]

I would have loved a five-shot 45Colt and wanted one for years, but didn't want to spend several grand just to have one (esp when there's always FA!). A few years later Ruger comes out with the five-shot 454 and 480, so I think a five-shot 45Colt would just be redundant at this point. I'd just prefer Ruger open up a custom shop where they will go that extra mile to properly clock the barrel, tighten the gun up more, do an action job, and for once offer thicker wooden grip panels to accommodate those with larger hands. It would be nice to order something like this rather than look for a gunsmith and wait in line. Many out there are a couple years wait and prices easily double or triple the investment. Having a factory option akin to how the Remington Custom Shop used to run for rifles would be my preference. The main reason I don't buy "more" Ruger revolvers is because there's always things I want to change or fix and good gunsmiths are few and far between.

 

[Enigma]

Or, one could always buy a BFR. They even offer an auxiliary .45 Colt cylinder for their .454s. While I kind of like the idea of a factory 5-shot .45 from Ruger, I personally doubt that they would seriously entertain the idea. They'd probably tell you to buy a .454 and shoot hot .45 Colt loads in it. Besides, how many years had folks been begging them to make a 5-shot .480 before they did?

 

[contender]

I think the current offerings of the 6 shot .45 Colt Blackhawk is fine. It's the same frame size as the Super Blackhawk anyway. And since Ruger did offer that gun as a "Hunter" model with a Bisley g/f, it's a good option. Or just get one of the "Williams" distributor guns & go. No real reason for Ruger to deviate from guns already in production. Especially since many like the 6th shot availability already.
Basically they already offer what you seek or can easily be made by swapping a few parts without the one option of it being a 5-shot. Yes,, the steel may be a different alloy, but it's not a deal breaker.

And as for a "custom shop" from Ruger where they would "build whatever a customer wishes," isn't an easy option anymore. Just not enough skilled gun builders, (and no, I didn't call them gunsmiths) do do such work. It's hard enough to find general laborers who can (a) pass a drug test, (b) pass a background check, (c) be willing to actually work.
Just like in the private sector,, a GOOD gun builder or a GOOD gunsmith is hard to find because of TIME, MONEY & education. Properly timing an action, correctly clocking a barrel, setting a minimum barrel gap, working all the action parts to a smooth as glass feel, etc takes TIME. LOTS of time. Ruger just doesn't have the resources to fill that gap.
And when a good gunsmith is found,, they usually have a pretty good back log BECAUSE they are good.
To get these things done,, PROPERLY,, a good machinist with a passion for firearms is what's desired. And that person needs to KNOW how a gun works properly.
Grip sizes,, the hardest part for any gun maker to actually build,, due to the variations in everybody's hands.
But again, custom grip makers are there because of the need. I tell folks in classes. "If you are a person with a different body size than what's "average" prepare to pay more for everything. A very tall person, or a short but well rounded person etc will often have to go to a specialty shop for clothes,, and it's the same with correctly fitting handgun grips.

Just think of the following thought;

What would we all do if guns were outlawed? What would we complain about then? I say be grateful we have the very diverse styles or models of different guns by different makers already here. If you desire something that's not offered,,, just have it built & you pay for your preferences! Remember,, we could be in a position of not having them at all!

 

[Thumbcocker]

I have had several. 45 Colt Rugers. The .45 Colt, in my experience, is a cantankerous old witch of a cartridge that hates me. I have had cylinders reamed and done tons of load development and testing. I have yet to find a .45 Colt that will shoot as well as my best .44 special or magnum revolvers. It is not even close. .44's just shoot way better for me.

 

[bearskinner]

As a lover of all things .45 and .475, I would certainly add one, or one of each barrel length to my collection of ( have lots of 5 shot customs) 45's and .454's

 

[shoot to thrill]

Nope, not interested. I prefer my 44 Special single actions. If I really need to step up in caliber I'd prefer a 44 Mag or 454.

but with the blackhawk in 45 LC it can be loaded to equal or pass the 44 mag

 

[Onty]

but with the blackhawk in 45 LC it can be loaded to equal or pass the 44 mag

Nothing wrong with 44 Magnum (I have 3 revolvers now), but for those who need revolver for hunting or as a backup, any way you slice it, 45 Colt is better; bigger caliber bullet, for the same bullet weight, and all that at less pressure. Let examine facts why 45 Colt IMHO has considerable edge over 44 magnum (and 44 Special).

First, why I prefer 45 Colt (at "Ruger" level) over 454, 480, 475 and 500? Because of this very interesting fact:

"...I DO KNOW I CAN RUN 300gr BULLETS AT 1100FPS FROM ALL MY 45COLT SIXGUNS INCLUDING THE COLT AND S&W M25-5 GUNS OF VARIOUS BARREL LENGTHS WITH LOADS THAT ARE STRAIGHT OUT OF THE LAST FEW SPEER MANUALS.
A 45 CALIBER 300gr LFN BULLET AT 1100 WILL COMPLETELY PENETRATE ANY ANIMAL IN NORTH AMERICA AND YOU NEED NOTHING ELSE. MORE SPEED MAY FLATTEN THE TRAJECTORY A BIT-- darned LITTLE TOO AS A MATTER OF FACT-- BUT ALL YOU ARE DOING AT 1100 OR 1300 IS POKING A 45 CALIBER HOLE IN AND A 45 CALIBER HOLE OUT.
THE MOST INTERESTING PART OF THIS TO ME IS THE FACT THAT A 454424 KEITH BULLET AT THE SAME SPEEDS--1050 TO 1100-- DOES THE SAME WORK AND DOES IT AT EVEN LOWER PRESSURES. THIRTY SIX YEARS AGO I PUT FIVE TONS OF MEAT ON THE GROUND WITH THE KEITH LOAD FROM A RUGER 45COLT 4 5/8" SIXGUN [ 1075FPS FROM THIS GUN ] AND NEVER RECOVERED A SINGLE BULLET. THEY WENT COMPLETELY THROUGH FROM EVERY CONCEIVABLE ANGLE INCLUDING FROM STRAIGHT ABOVE.
THERE IS NO NEED FOR ANY HEAVIER BULLETS OF ANY KIND IN THE 45COLT CARTRIDGE" (Terry Murbach)

https://www.levergunscommunity.org/viewtopic.php?t=19554 , posted Tue Jul 28, 2009 12:31 pm

Since the largest game I am going to encounter is a wild boar, although some could be as big as 250 kg (551 lb), if 454424 at 1100 fps will go right through a cow, and not a single bullet was recovered, even the largest wild boar doesn't have a chance when hit properly.

Some interesting loads:

Hodgdon, loads for 45 Colt (Ruger, Freedom Arms & T/C only):

325 GR. CPB LFN PB, powder H110, starting load 21.0 grains, loaded round OAL 1.680", 1109 fps (barrel 7.250"),18 100 CUP
335 GR. CPB LFN GC, powder H110, starting load 20.5 grains, loaded round OAL 1.680", 1109 fps (barrel 7.250"),19 200 CUP

https://www.hodgdonreloading.com/reloading-data-center?rdc=true&type=53

Back when I was working up loads with the 284 grain Scovill bullet (the RCBS 45-270-SAA SWC), the best load I found in my guns was 13.0 grains of HS-6, which gave 1050-1150 fps, depending on barrel length, and excellent accuracy. According to the pressure data in the Hodgdon manual, this load generates roughly 22,000 CUP (again, not suitable for older, or weaker sixguns). So, naturally, I tried that load with the 280 grain (25-1 alloy) Miha Prevec HP. Once again, I got very good accuracy and velocities averaged 1162 fps. I like HS-6, it is a very useful revolver powder. (Glen E. Fryxell)

http://www.lasc.us/FryxellMpMolds.htm

Of all loads above, I prefer RCBS 45-270-SAA SWC with HS-6. I don't have noted RCBS bullet mold, but I do have this one:

This is 45-503 SWC, a version of famous Keith's H&G #503. Cast using WW, this bullet weighs almost 290 grains.

BTW, H&G #503 is available from MP-Molds as MP 432-256 PB SOLID https://www.mp-molds.com/bullet-casting-equipment/?pa_caliber=432 .

Considering all above, having 260-290 grains, at 1100 fps, and all that at very moderate 18 000 - 22 000 CUP, many of us just don't need 454 and its 65 000 psi.

 

[DocTone]

My 6 shot .45 Colt SBH (of my making) is all I would need. 310gr. LFN @1,400fps. Ruger would be cutting into John Linebaugh's marked.

 

[shoot to thrill]

Nothing wrong with 44 Magnum (I have 3 revolvers now), but for those who need revolver for hunting or as a backup, any way you slice it, 45 Colt is better; bigger caliber bullet, for the same bullet weight, and all that at less pressure. Let examine facts why 45 Colt IMHO has considerable edge over 44 magnum (and 44 Special).

First, why I prefer 45 Colt (at "Ruger" level) over 454, 480, 475 and 500? Because of this very interesting fact:

"...I DO KNOW I CAN RUN 300gr BULLETS AT 1100FPS FROM ALL MY 45COLT SIXGUNS INCLUDING THE COLT AND S&W M25-5 GUNS OF VARIOUS BARREL LENGTHS WITH LOADS THAT ARE STRAIGHT OUT OF THE LAST FEW SPEER MANUALS.
A 45 CALIBER 300gr LFN BULLET AT 1100 WILL COMPLETELY PENETRATE ANY ANIMAL IN NORTH AMERICA AND YOU NEED NOTHING ELSE. MORE SPEED MAY FLATTEN THE TRAJECTORY A BIT-- darned LITTLE TOO AS A MATTER OF FACT-- BUT ALL YOU ARE DOING AT 1100 OR 1300 IS POKING A 45 CALIBER HOLE IN AND A 45 CALIBER HOLE OUT.
THE MOST INTERESTING PART OF THIS TO ME IS THE FACT THAT A 454424 KEITH BULLET AT THE SAME SPEEDS--1050 TO 1100-- DOES THE SAME WORK AND DOES IT AT EVEN LOWER PRESSURES. THIRTY SIX YEARS AGO I PUT FIVE TONS OF MEAT ON THE GROUND WITH THE KEITH LOAD FROM A RUGER 45COLT 4 5/8" SIXGUN [ 1075FPS FROM THIS GUN ] AND NEVER RECOVERED A SINGLE BULLET. THEY WENT COMPLETELY THROUGH FROM EVERY CONCEIVABLE ANGLE INCLUDING FROM STRAIGHT ABOVE.
THERE IS NO NEED FOR ANY HEAVIER BULLETS OF ANY KIND IN THE 45COLT CARTRIDGE" (Terry Murbach)

https://www.levergunscommunity.org/viewtopic.php?t=19554 , posted Tue Jul 28, 2009 12:31 pm

Since the largest game I am going to encounter is a wild boar, although some could be as big as 250 kg (551 lb), if 454424 at 1100 fps will go right through a cow, and not a single bullet was recovered, even the largest wild boar doesn't have a chance when hit properly.

Some interesting loads:

Hodgdon, loads for 45 Colt (Ruger, Freedom Arms & T/C only):

325 GR. CPB LFN PB, powder H110, starting load 21.0 grains, loaded round OAL 1.680", 1109 fps (barrel 7.250"),18 100 CUP
335 GR. CPB LFN GC, powder H110, starting load 20.5 grains, loaded round OAL 1.680", 1109 fps (barrel 7.250"),19 200 CUP

https://www.hodgdonreloading.com/reloading-data-center?rdc=true&type=53

Back when I was working up loads with the 284 grain Scovill bullet (the RCBS 45-270-SAA SWC), the best load I found in my guns was 13.0 grains of HS-6, which gave 1050-1150 fps, depending on barrel length, and excellent accuracy. According to the pressure data in the Hodgdon manual, this load generates roughly 22,000 CUP (again, not suitable for older, or weaker sixguns). So, naturally, I tried that load with the 280 grain (25-1 alloy) Miha Prevec HP. Once again, I got very good accuracy and velocities averaged 1162 fps. I like HS-6, it is a very useful revolver powder. (Glen E. Fryxell)

http://www.lasc.us/FryxellMpMolds.htm

Of all loads above, I prefer RCBS 45-270-SAA SWC with HS-6. I don't have noted RCBS bullet mold, but I do have this one:

This is 45-503 SWC, a version of famous Keith's H&G #503. Cast using WW, this bullet weighs almost 290 grains.

BTW, H&G #503 is available from MP-Molds as MP 432-256 PB SOLID https://www.mp-molds.com/bullet-casting-equipment/?pa_caliber=432 .

Considering all above, having 260-290 grains, at 1100 fps, and all that at very moderate 18 000 - 22 000 CUP, many of us just don't need 454 and its 65 000 psi.

that is good info and just what I was talking about. a 44 mag bullet is .429 not 44. it is a good round but I always like the 45 better. Mike Venturino stated with the 45/70 the same as as you saying a 400 or 500 gr bullet at 1300-1400 goes thru a buffalo at any angle. be did not see the need to load the near 2000 fps

 

[Jason280_2]

Yup, all you need is the BFR...although, I am not sure if it would accept a Bisley style frame.

 

[Onty]

Yup, all you need is the BFR...although, I am not sure if it would accept a Bisley style frame.

From what I found, old BFR will accept Bisley grip frame, new ones no. As a matter of fact, a number of years ago I even contacted manufacturer and asked about Bisley version of BFR, and before I even finished guy said NO!

Also, when I phoned fellow who was making blank cylinders (just with pilot holes) for Ruger SA revolvers, and asked about stainless one, the answer was NO STAINLESS, PERIOD.

 

[powder smoke]

I have had several. 45 Colt Rugers. The .45 Colt, in my experience, is a cantankerous old witch of a cartridge that hates me. I have had cylinders reamed and done tons of load development and testing. I have yet to find a .45 Colt that will shoot as well as my best .44 special or magnum revolvers. It is not even close. .44's just shoot way better for me.

Sometimes it is the gun!