Store - cocked or no?
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Snake45
Hawkeye
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Mine too, and I always try to. But the modern school of thought is that springs don't "take a set," as has been discussed for decades, but that they're worn out by cycling.
Merovingian
Bearcat
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I agree, which basically makes the internal locking mechanism on the MKIII a totally wasted feature unless I store it cocked and continually dry fire it.
There had to be a way to make a internal locking system with the gun uncocked... even Taurus could do that.
There had to be a way to make a internal locking system with the gun uncocked... even Taurus could do that.
The springs will likely outlast you, so I wouldn't worry about it.
I have a Colt Woodsman from 1941 that's been stored "cocked" since I got it around 1984, and it was stored loaded before that. It still works just fine, and probably better than a new pistol would.
In fact, the magazine has been mostly loaded during that time, and it's still fine as well.
If anything, the steel used in springs today is far superior to the steel used in springs in 1941.
So, I tend to not worry too much about springs. Keep 'em clean and oiled, and they'll be just fine.
Daryl
I have a Colt Woodsman from 1941 that's been stored "cocked" since I got it around 1984, and it was stored loaded before that. It still works just fine, and probably better than a new pistol would.
In fact, the magazine has been mostly loaded during that time, and it's still fine as well.
If anything, the steel used in springs today is far superior to the steel used in springs in 1941.
So, I tend to not worry too much about springs. Keep 'em clean and oiled, and they'll be just fine.
Daryl
Snake45
Hawkeye
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I do have two personal examples of springs weakening with use (from cycling, not from setting):
1. In 2006 I built up a .22-converted Walther P.38 with an unused (new) conversion set I bought off ePay. The mag spring was so stiff that the gun would not function with more than 5 rounds in it, and then only with super-peppy Remington Golden Bullets. After several hundred rounds it would function with six rounds in the mag, and then with seven, and then finally with all eight. After about 1000 rounds, it would run fine with eight rounds of Federal Bulk, which is less powerful. I've got 5000 rounds through it since then, and it's still working fine.
2. In 2007 I built up a 1911 with a Ciener conversion, and I used a brand-new USGI spec full-strength mainspring in it. This gun, too, would only function with Rem Goldens. Now, with about 14,000 rounds through it, it will function nicely with Fed Bulks. Full-powered ones, anyway. The problem is that most recent lots of Fed Bulk have a number of underpowered rounds in them, which of course will NOT run the thing, so I still have to use the (more expensive) Rem GBs in it. If the Fed Bulk quality ever comes back up, I'll be able to use them in it regularly.
1. In 2006 I built up a .22-converted Walther P.38 with an unused (new) conversion set I bought off ePay. The mag spring was so stiff that the gun would not function with more than 5 rounds in it, and then only with super-peppy Remington Golden Bullets. After several hundred rounds it would function with six rounds in the mag, and then with seven, and then finally with all eight. After about 1000 rounds, it would run fine with eight rounds of Federal Bulk, which is less powerful. I've got 5000 rounds through it since then, and it's still working fine.
2. In 2007 I built up a 1911 with a Ciener conversion, and I used a brand-new USGI spec full-strength mainspring in it. This gun, too, would only function with Rem Goldens. Now, with about 14,000 rounds through it, it will function nicely with Fed Bulks. Full-powered ones, anyway. The problem is that most recent lots of Fed Bulk have a number of underpowered rounds in them, which of course will NOT run the thing, so I still have to use the (more expensive) Rem GBs in it. If the Fed Bulk quality ever comes back up, I'll be able to use them in it regularly.
Snake,
Over-stressing a spring will cause it to weaken. My guess is that that springs in your two examples were so tight that they were over-stressed a bit until they weakened to the point of "fitting" their use.
My Woodsman has the horizontal bars on the back of the grip area (web of hand area) that indicate it's ok to use for high velocity .22 LR ammo. When I got it, it wouldn't function right with a full mag of standard or subsonic ammo, but would function fine with a full magazing of mini-mags or other high velocity ammo. It'd also function fine with a partial mag of lower velocity ammo, the number of rounds dictated by the level they were loaded to.
And it's still that way today. The springs haven't weakened at all in that magazine after being loaded for many, many years.
All this said, I also have a Marlin/Glenfield model 60 that, after many, many tens of thousands of rounds through it, will finally feed sub-sonic and standard velocity ammo. I bought that rifle new in 1980 (for something like $44.00 at K-mart), and had to use high velocity ammo in it or it would jam. I'm guessing all these years of using the high velocity ammo in it finally over-stressed the springs enough to weaken them to the point that it'll now feed lower velocity ammo.
Or, the parts are worn enough so that they slide easier, so there's less friction to hinder the semi-auto action. Either way, I figure after 29 years of lots and lots of shooting, it's finally broken in.
Daryl
Daryl
Over-stressing a spring will cause it to weaken. My guess is that that springs in your two examples were so tight that they were over-stressed a bit until they weakened to the point of "fitting" their use.
My Woodsman has the horizontal bars on the back of the grip area (web of hand area) that indicate it's ok to use for high velocity .22 LR ammo. When I got it, it wouldn't function right with a full mag of standard or subsonic ammo, but would function fine with a full magazing of mini-mags or other high velocity ammo. It'd also function fine with a partial mag of lower velocity ammo, the number of rounds dictated by the level they were loaded to.
And it's still that way today. The springs haven't weakened at all in that magazine after being loaded for many, many years.
All this said, I also have a Marlin/Glenfield model 60 that, after many, many tens of thousands of rounds through it, will finally feed sub-sonic and standard velocity ammo. I bought that rifle new in 1980 (for something like $44.00 at K-mart), and had to use high velocity ammo in it or it would jam. I'm guessing all these years of using the high velocity ammo in it finally over-stressed the springs enough to weaken them to the point that it'll now feed lower velocity ammo.
Or, the parts are worn enough so that they slide easier, so there's less friction to hinder the semi-auto action. Either way, I figure after 29 years of lots and lots of shooting, it's finally broken in.
Daryl
Daryl
CraigC
Hawkeye
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I don't worry too much about springs. Better to have to replace a spring after 50yrs of "setting" than a firing pin because it peened itself against the breechface from dry firing.
My Ciener won't run with Federal bulk either. I have to run Remington Golden Bullets through it for it to cycle reliably. That it does too, I still haven't cleaned it since our last discussion.
Maybe I'll clean it and try Federals in it again just to see.
My Ciener won't run with Federal bulk either. I have to run Remington Golden Bullets through it for it to cycle reliably. That it does too, I still haven't cleaned it since our last discussion.
Maybe I'll clean it and try Federals in it again just to see.
Snake45
Hawkeye
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I have another Ciener conversion on another frame that has a reduced-power ("target") mainspring in it and that one runs just fine on Fed Bulks.CraigC":3upl3o5p said:My Ciener won't run with Federal bulk either. I have to run Remington Golden Bullets through it for it to cycle reliably. That it does too, I still haven't cleaned it since our last discussion.
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About 15 or so years ago I bought a new BearCat. Springs kinda tight. I've always left it cocked in my safe hoping it might lighten itself up a bit in time. Not to worry, maybe in the next 15 years it might lighten up a bit while still cocked; maybe. I'm not holding my breath...
Uncocked...but for that pesky little BearCat :wink:
Uncocked...but for that pesky little BearCat :wink:
kyhareraiser
Bearcat
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uncocked
mattsbox99
Hunter
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Ruger's are totally safe to dryfire as much as you want, that is information straight from Ruger.
I store all of my Rugers uncocked.
I store all of my Rugers uncocked.
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big difference in "dry firing" and lowering the hammer, to "uncock" the gun,,,,,,,,,,,why chance it that the spring was "maybe/should be" made correctly.......mine are always "uncocked"........you'll find out 'someday'. :wink:
Jasperharley
Bearcat
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mattsbox99":13j8471t said:
Yeah, I said that at the range on sunday and the guys there all jumped down my throat. From their point of view, no matter who made the gun or what they say, never dry fire a rim fire pistol. The guy went on to explain that after several hundred thousand rounds as a rental, their MKII was falling apart. Thought it was the dry firing. I think it was because it was a rental.
That having been said, I live in the City and have a lock on my Ruger MKII which requires that the gun have the breach open and be fully cocked. The lock runs through the breach through the magazine space and out the bottom.
Jasperharley":3k1xf64d said:
The next time they start off with that, just sort of stand back, and think to yourself, "Ummmm...The people who designed it, built it, shipped it, who'll fix it if they're wrong and who literally wrote the book on it,...or "a guy at the range." Who am I going to believe." :wink:
G. Freeman
Bearcat
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All of my MK-II's are stored cocked. I have one that's been in a cocked state for almost 10 years. Still no probs. Of course, I shoot it from time to time so the spring is not always in a cocked state.
Only time will tell if the hammer tension stays the same.
Only time will tell if the hammer tension stays the same.
