Solved! P944DAO 3 Second Delay Fire Issue not Ammo Related

[P71Cemoto]

Hello everyone,

First - Happy New Year!

Second - I have a (shipped in 2002) model 03402 P944DAO that has a delayed fire issue I could really use some help with please. Hoping someone has been there before and can offer guidance. It is a recent purchase for me to go along with my PC4 as they both use the same magazines.
The first round through it functions as it should with no delay in firing but starting with the second round there is a delay before the pin hits the primer and it fires. Today there was a 3 second delay before ignition and this is with my finger holding the trigger - all - the - way - back. This is a dangerous situation and I'll detail what I've done to try and correct it. The problem definitely lies in the frame, see below.

The delay occurs using 3 different brands of fresh ammo.

My first suspicion was a dirty pin and pin bore, but that was addressed (see below).

1. Complete dis-assembly of the slide, firing pin and spring.
2. Used a bronze bore brush to thoroughly clean the pin and spring bores
3. Used oil and 2000 grit emery cloth to lightly polish the back end of the pin piston
4. Swap out complete slide and barrel with another of the same model - no change - issue stays with swapped slide/barrel.
5. Shells eject as it should.

Both slide/barrel assemblies dry function as they should when swapped to a different P944 frame.

Thank you for any suggestions!

Al

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[roylt]

Been years for me tinkering on these so memory is weak but you don't show the firing pin block etc out of the slide. Did you remove all that?

Also to be sure I get it. You have two frames and two slides. The issue stays with the slide on both frames. right? So that tells you the issue is with the bad slide assembly. I would compare the slide parts side by side the best you can without mixing them.

My gut says look at the pin block first. Good luck and do report back.


Keep the P-guns alive!!!

 

[P71Cemoto]

Thank you for responding.
Yes that is correct, except for the firing spring block (KV02103) I've completely dis-assembled the slides. The pin block easily pushes down and freely returns, need I go further? I did blast it really good with some Birchwood Casey Gun Scrubber upon the first cleaning and it seems to function as it should. Would it need further dis-assembly?
Yes, I have two of the same gun, one is the stainless version from 1994 and the second is the blued version from 2002. If I swap slide components (firing pin & spring) the issue still occurs.

Thank you!

 

[P71Cemoto]

Here are a couple of photos and a short video of the pin block functioning, hope they help.

Thank you

 

[P71Cemoto]

This appears to be in good shape. Thank you

 

[hittman]

What's the purpose of holding the trigger all the way back?

 

[P71Cemoto]

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These guns have a really long pull before activating and I wanted to make sure folks understood it was pulled all the way back, a full pull.
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[XUSNORDIE]

Well its DAO so no safety detent plunger/spring issue can be the cause, you say the firing pin block is functional......its a stretch but hammer strut issue?

 

[the_leper_colony]

...Also to be sure I get it. You have two frames and two slides. The issue stays with the slide on both frames. right? So that tells you the issue is with the bad slide assembly...

FWIW, in his first post @P71Cemoto said, "Both slide/barrel assemblies function as they should when swapped to a different P944 frame", which sounds like it could be an issue with the one frame assembly/bottom half, rather than the slide assembly?

 

[XUSNORDIE]

FWIW, in his first post @P71Cemoto said, "Both slide/barrel assemblies function as they should when swapped to a different P944 frame", which sounds like it could be an issue with the one frame assembly/bottom half, rather than the slide assembly?

That's why I suggested it could be an issue with the hammer strut which is part of the firing mechanism located in frame. Possibly weak or poor engagement/alignment? Only so many things it can be. To me, it sounds like a primer hang fire but he states it's not ammo. He states the firing pin block is functioning and the firing pin/spring is clean/functional.

He states the delay is before the pin hits the primer.....making it sound as if the hammer is not fully contacting the firing pin, or it is and the firing pin is blocked/slowed then fully releases striking the primer and firing.....definitely fire mech components but the most common causes he states are not the causes.

I recommend stripping down the frame, inspect, clean, lubricate, reassemble and test fire. Maybe even test dry fire. Put a pencil down the barrel, eraser against the firing pin hole, pull trigger and see if it ejects the pencil immediately or it's "delayed" again. If so, what is preventing the firing pin from protruding or what is preventing the hammer from striking the firing pin?

This is a mysterious "hang fire" scenario......

 

[NikA]

He states the delay is before the pin hits the primer.....making it sound as if the hammer is not fully contacting the firing pin, or it is and the firing pin is blocked/slowed then fully releases striking the primer and firing.....definitely fire mech components but the most common causes he states are not the causes.

I don't see how it's possible to even have a delay of a tenth of a second between the hammer drop and the firing pin hitting the primer and still have sufficient momentum to have the primer detonate. If there's some failure to release the hammer, I could see that being a possibility, but the contact between the hammer, firing pin, and any safeties is by necessity so rapid and finely tuned to be drop safe that I have to believe there's information being withheld or communicated incorrectly.

 

[XUSNORDIE]

It is a weird one. I agree the entire story isn't known most likely. The most common causes have been ruled out from the way it has been communicated. I'd love to have the chance to tear this thing down and troubleshoot it. There's only minimal ways the hammer or firing pin would be prevented from functioning, that I can think of.

I keep replaying it in my head. Pull trigger, bang, from what he states the trigger/hammer/etc resets, pulls trigger again, I'm assuming the hammer is released, but it either doesn't strike the firing pin or the firing pin doesn't strike the primer, one of the two are "stuck" then suddenly release and the pistol fires. That's how I feel he's describing it. If that's true, then I really don't see where the force would come from to set the primer off either? But putting the slide on another frame fixes the issue.....so the issue is in the original frame, which eliminates the firing pin, block and hammer issue.

Can't wait to hear what the cause is.

 

[P71Cemoto]

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I'll try to clear up some confusion. Two guns, one stainless, one blued. The earlier stainless (1994) was a safe queen and in mint condition. The issue is with the later (2002) blued one.

Also, I have very little experience with this particular series so am thankful for you all, and yes, I might not communicate correctly. This situation is very un-nerving.

I've swapped components from each slide to the other and the issue still occurs.

My range buddy is a retired armorer and instructor from a local PD and he thinks it is something in the newer frame. Per the earlier suggestion above, I've disassembled the blued slide and did another clean of the firing pin block in the suspect gun (blued), it functions exactly as it should and as the stainless slide does. The blued slide is what is shown in the video link.

I just performed the pencil test suggested above 6 times on both guns as they are assembled in the photo below. The first pull using the black frame the pencil shot out 24", the second and subsequent 5 pulls it shot out 12". The first pull using the older mint frame with the black slide ejected the pencil 12" with every pull. There was no delay in ejecting the pencil on either gun.

The photo you see below is of both guns but now the blued slide is on the older frame, and the stainless slide on the newer.

I'm going to test both and swap slides and test again on Friday and report back.

Thank you for the suggestions and support!

 

[hittman]

.
These guns have a really long pull before activating and I wanted to make sure folks understood it was pulled all the way back, a full pull.
.

Gotcha, thanks. I was picturing a slow pull and holding it back.

 

[arfmel]

As others have suggested, the problem is in the frame, not the slide, based on your description.

 

[the_leper_colony]

....Thank you for the suggestions and support!

Here's a schematic:

Ruger P944DAO Parts | Numrich

Find Ruger Model P944DAO pistol parts, accessories and more with Numrich Gun Parts Corp.. America’s leading pistol parts supplier.

www.gunpartscorp.com

Looking at a similar P-series gun that I have, I might compare a couple of parts that are installed in your two frames: the blocker lever (#2) and trigger bar (#42).

Part of the blicker lever (visible with the slide removed) rises up as the trigger is pulled, to lift the firing pin block in the slide. If the tip of the blocker lever is broken/worn/modified, it might not be lifting the firing pin block high enough to completely clear the firing pin.

Part of the trigger bar is visible above the left grip panel, and you can see it move forward as you pull the trigger; it moves within a relief cut in the slide, and when it reaches the forward end of that cut, it is forced downward, which releases the hammer. If the forward, rounded shoulder of that portion of the trigger bar is worn/modified, it might be impeding the release & fall of the hammer.

As always FWIW, IMHO, YMMV, etc., etc...

 

[XUSNORDIE]

it might be impeding the release & fall of the hammer.

That's what I've been saying. The OP states the hammer falls but there is a delay. Thats what made me think of a possible hammer strut issue.

NikA brought up a good point. If the hammer stops prior to striking the firing pin, and then somehow does, how is there enough force to set off the primer.

I would love to see a side view of the pistol being fired. Specifically the hammer.

Something just isn't making sense here the way we are reading it.

 

[P71Cemoto]

Here is a shot of both frames with the slides removed and of each of the trigger bars as they protrude from the frame. I'm going to test again tomorrow. I'll see if someone is around to video.
Thank you.

 

[XUSNORDIE]

Have you pulled the grips off to inspect for anything unusual like a canted strut, spring condition? etc....

 

[P71Cemoto]

Yes, grips have been removed, both frames appear identical. The only difference I notice is the hammer seems more forward in the suspect (black) frame compared to the stainless.

Here are some more photos -