So I was thinking...

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Fishman777

Bearcat
Joined
Dec 1, 2007
Messages
23
I was just over at Gunblast.com and had an interesting thought.

While I was looking at the 8 shot .327 Blackhawk cylinder, an idea popped up in my mind. Why not a 10 shot Blackhawk with .22lr and .22 magnum cylinders?

Before you say that the Blackhawk is too big, the single six hunter is 46 oz.

Anyways, I'd love to have a Ruger revolver with 10 shot .22lr. I'd rather see a DA revolver chambered in .22 lr, but if Ruger insists that there is no market for a DA .22lr, I'd have an interest in a 10 shot SA.

Does anyone out there agree with my insane little idea?
 

Jayhawkhuntclub

Buckeye
Joined
Aug 28, 2007
Messages
1,110
Location
Kansas
With all due respect: bad idea. Yes the 22 Hunter is heavy. But it's a whole different animal and it becomes apples vs oranges. I think they could probably due a 12 shot on that cylinder and frame. But I doubt anyone would buy one.
 

Flash

Buckeye
Joined
May 21, 2005
Messages
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Pennsylvania, USA
Jayhawkhuntclub":1gu8khki said:
With all due respect: bad idea. Yes the 22 Hunter is heavy. But it's a whole different animal and it becomes apples vs oranges. I think they could probably due a 12 shot on that cylinder and frame. But I doubt anyone would buy one.
A 12 shot? The pawl would be moving about 1/16" to ratchet the cylinder for 12 shots. It sounds good but I seem to think there would need to be plenty of modifications in the action for 12 shots.
 

Flash

Buckeye
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dipper":303a9w97 said:
Yes, I do know about them but they didn't go from a six shot to a twelve shot on the same action. It wouldn't be as simple as dropping in a cylinder and changing the roll marks. The geometry of the pawl, trigger and hammer most likely wouldn't be the same so the frame might not be usable either. This would evolve into a whole new gun which would cost a bundle for R&D.
 

dipper

Bearcat
Joined
Apr 21, 2008
Messages
26
Location
NC
I was directing my comment to the OP.... wondered if he new about the 12 shot USFA.... that's all.

Didn't know if he knew that USFA agreed with his idea.
 

Olsherm

Blackhawk
Joined
Feb 16, 2007
Messages
557
Location
Dexter,Missouri United States of America
I have one of the usfa 12/22 revolvers and it is a stunning gun. Frame and everything same size as a 45 colt. Cylinder moves very little upon cocking but gives all the clicks that a 45 colt has. Works great shoots great but is heavy. I like it. A twelve shot 22lr on the new flattop frame would be nice??
 

CraigC

Hawkeye
Joined
May 27, 2002
Messages
5,197
Location
West Tennessee
Flash":2nf7m1aa said:
Yes, I do know about them but they didn't go from a six shot to a twelve shot on the same action.
Uh, yes, they certainly did. The 12/22 is a full-sized SAA replica and one more fine twelvegun if I do say so myself. It's smaller than a Blackhawk and it's way too much gun for the .22LR but I look past that because it's a fine revolver that holds 12rds. So a large frame Blackhawk would be way, way too much gun for the .22LR although a mid-frame 12-shot would be interesting enough to get one.
USFA%2012-22%2003b.jpg
 

Flash

Buckeye
Joined
May 21, 2005
Messages
1,164
Location
Pennsylvania, USA
CraigC":14pzswuv said:
Flash":14pzswuv said:
Yes, I do know about them but they didn't go from a six shot to a twelve shot on the same action.
Uh, yes, they certainly did. The 12/22 is a full-sized SAA replica and one more fine twelvegun if I do say so myself. It's smaller than a Blackhawk and it's way too much gun for the .22LR but I look past that because it's a fine revolver that holds 12rds. So a large frame Blackhawk would be way, way too much gun for the .22LR although a mid-frame 12-shot would be interesting enough to get one.
USFA%2012-22%2003b.jpg

Uh, no, they certainly didn't. And I quote from their web site to describe their three rimfire models.
The plinker. Special Cross-Pin rimfire frame for ease of change-out of the cylinders.
Target. Cross-Pin, Flattop Target Special Rimfire Frame
12/22 Frame Style: Square Notch Rear and Square Front Blade
According to their web site, the Target and plinker share the same frame features but the 12/22 says nothing about any frame feature of those two, hence a different frame completely.
 

dipper

Bearcat
Joined
Apr 21, 2008
Messages
26
Location
NC
I think what CraigC is saying is that USFA took their existing full sized frame which IS a six shooter and turned it into a 12 shot rimfire.
I doubt that USFA made a completely NEW frame for one revolver in their catalog.... they used their current full sized frame... with modifications of course.

This goes along with what the OP suggested.... using a full size BLACKHAWK frame for a 10 shot 22 rimfire..... he did not suggest using a Bearcat or Single Six.

Saying:
"Uh, no, they certainly didn't. And I quote from their web site to describe their three rimfire models.
The plinker. Special Cross-Pin rimfire frame for ease of change-out of the cylinders.
Target. Cross-Pin, Flattop Target Special Rimfire Frame
12/22 Frame Style: Square Notch Rear and Square Front Blade
According to their web site, the Target and plinker share the same frame features but the 12/22 says nothing about any frame feature of those two, hence a different frame completely."

Is really not addressing the OPs post..... He said BLACKHAWK... which is what USFA did....used their full sized frame to make their 12 shot rimfire.

I am SURE Ruger could build a 10 shot 22 rimfire on their Black Hawk frame if they wanted to... and I would buy one.
 

Flash

Buckeye
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Hey dipper, I just quoted their web site and you're telling me what you DOUBT they did. I believe their web site states what they DID do. Back in my original post, I stated the geometry wasn't the same for the hammer, trigger and pawl. When you go from 6 ratchets, now that 360 degrees divided by 6 which is 60, and then go to 12 ratchets which is 30 degrees, thast makes the pawl move half the distance when you pull the hammer back. The mass of the hammer must still move the same distance to have an effective primer strike and the sear must contact the hammer in an apropriate position for this to happen but still, with the pawl only moving half the distance. This substantiates my statement about not being able to go from a 6 to a 12 shot on the same action without needing planty of modifications. Read all the posts.
 

CraigC

Hawkeye
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Messages
5,197
Location
West Tennessee
Everything about the frame is the same, except the firing pin location. THAT is the only distinction with the "rimfire frame". Your assessment is completely wrong and you're reading a lot into what's posted on the website. Maybe if you actually owned both a rimfire and centerfire USFA, you would know what you were talking about. What USFA did to adapt the SAA to a 12-shot is exactly what Ruger would have to do to do the same with the Blackhawk. This ain't rocket science.
 

Aggie01

Blackhawk
Joined
Oct 16, 2008
Messages
968
Location
Texas (DFW)
A Ruger pawl (hand) has two steps (except the Old Army). I would imagine the USFA pawl (hand) for the 12/22 only has one. Pretty simple change to cut cylinder travel in half without changing anything else in the action.

Just my two cents.
 

CraigC

Hawkeye
Joined
May 27, 2002
Messages
5,197
Location
West Tennessee
It doesn't take a huge reconfiguration to make it work. I think you're right about the hand, I'll have to check when I get home.
 

dipper

Bearcat
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Apr 21, 2008
Messages
26
Location
NC
Yes, you quoted their website:

The 12/22™ ~ Specifications

Frame Style: Square Notch Rear and Square Front Blade ( LOOK HERE)

Sights: Square Notch Rear, Square Front Blade ( AND HERE)

SEE anything?? Maybe a typo?? It appears they printed the sight style twice.
Did you notice that??

Did you think the sight configuration was a frame style??

I'll bet ya if there wasn't a misprint the frame style would say CROSS PIN.
Like CraigC said "it ain't rocket science" to change from a 6 shooter to a 12.... the indexing mechanism is different but the FRAME doesn't have to be.

Do you think that when manufactures go from a six to seven to eight shot capacity revolver they CHANGE the FRAME?
S&W 686 comes to mind.
 

Seancass

Bearcat
Joined
Nov 27, 2006
Messages
68
Location
Indiana
I hate to interupt the arguing, but CraigC, that gun looks Amazing!

On the subject, why not do this on the Single Six frame? maybe not 12, but 7,8, maybe up to 10 seems reasonable in that frame.
 
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