Single Six Vs. Mark II Target....

[MacTech]

I currently have a Mark II Target with 5.5" bull barrel, and I'm not exactly happy with it at the moment (intermittent light strikes), I'm thinking about my options

It was purchased used at my local gunshop, and only recently has it been light-striking, the light strikes are completely random and unpredictable, one mag I had four in a row, another mag, none, a third mag, two, it's not the mags, I've given the innards a good cleaning, even cleaned the firing pin and firing pin channel, I just can't count on this gun to reliably go *bang* every time I pull the trigger, the accuracy's not the greatest either....

I definitely don't like the Mk III (specifically the useless Lawyer/Nannycrap on it, the LCI and the mag disconnect), so replacing it with a MkIII is a non-option

I have an old H&R 949 9-shot revolver that's amazingly accurate, it outshoots the MkII, plus, I'm a revolver guy at heart, I also tried out a S&W 6 shot 617 at the range last Sunday, and fell in love with it, smooth trigger, great balance, I shot the tiniest groups with that gun that I had *ever* shot out of *any* .22 handgun....

So, I've been thinking....

I'm not happy with my MkII, but I'm not a fan of the MkIII, plus MkII's are getting harder to find on the used market (at least in my area), my options are;

1; send it to Ruger, have them give it a good once-over, maybe even have them clean it up and reblue it (it's a tad worn and has a couple spots of red rust in the hard to reach crevices), have them basically refurbish it, pros, I get a nicely reworked Mark II, cons, might cost me more than I paid for the gun ($180)

2; trade it for store credit at the gunshop (yes, I'd tell them about the intermittent light strikes, not trying to sucker anyone) and put the store credit towards another .22 handgun....

Now, to get to the subject of my thread, from what I understand, the Single Six has a *slightly* oversized bore to accommodate the slightly larger .22Mag bullet, and therefore, accuracy with the .22LR bullet is *slightly* less than with a revolver designed solely around the .22LR (like my 949), and seeing as I tend to shoot for maximum accuracy, that's a point against the Single Six, OTOH, if I swapped the MkII for a SS, I would *gain* the ability to shoot .22Mag, and I've always wanted to try them....

If i could find a reasonably priced (read that as *inexpensive*) S&W 617 in either 6 or 10 shot, I'd trade out of the MkII in a heartbeat (I know this is sacrilege on a Ruger forum ), but finding one of those is going to be even harder than finding another MkII Target in decent shape....

So, the question comes down to this.....
What is the accuracy difference between a MkII bull-barrel model, and a SS using the .22LR cylinder? if both firearms were locked into a Ransom rest to remove the human part of the equation, how much "less" accurate would the SS be?[/u]

 

[JHRosier]

I have a new Single-Six Hunter that came at Christmas.
It has shot 1" groups at twenty five yards from a rest.
I'm still trying different kinds of ammo to see what it likes best.
So far it is the Federal Champions.

I also have a nice first year of production MKII 678.
It shoots better than I can hold any day.
I wouldn't want to part with either of them, but I like shooting the Single-Six more than the MKII.
If the auto started acting up I would throw in a new set of springs real quick.
I've heard tell that the springs do get weak after a time and should be replaced.

Jack

 

[Silent Sam]

Ammo is key w/ 22's. Have you tried different ammo in your MKII?

 

[MacTech]

I've tried a few different brands of ammo in the MkII;
Federal AmEagle, red box bulk, blue box bulk
CCI Minimags, Velocitor
Remington Target (non-Eley)

Ironically, the MkII seemed to like the crappy RemTarget better than the others, but that ammo sucks in all my other .22's, RemTarg in the MkII groups *slightly* better, but it's to the point where I'm not sure if it's me having a good/bad day, or the gun itself

Maybe I should crack open a brick of my CCI Blazer backstock to see how it fares

I'm not completely sold on the necessity of having a semiauto .22 pistol, I only use it recreationaly anyway, the only advantage it would have over a revolver is quicker reloads than a SA or DA revolver, and even then, compared against a 10 shot S&W 617, there'd be almost no advantage to the MkII

For my own purposes, the choice between MkII and SS comes down to which one has the potential to be more accurate, all other variables exempted, the SS has simplicity and reliability and the ability to shoot .22Mag on it's side, the MkII has faster magazine reloads on it's side...

 

[vllyby]

I currently have a single six bought in 1981. Around 1990 I bought an MKII 5 1/2 in barrel. I originally felt it to be less than accurate, but after much shooting I found that any variation in my grip caused altered point of impact. I could concentrate on my grip and shoot accuratly on paper but never came to like the pistol because of it. I sold it several years ago. My single six is shot almost all 22LR. I dont care for the 22mag due to the sharp crack when fired but I'm sensitive to noise. The accuracy is comparable to a iron sight rifle. charlie

 

[96/44]

Why not find a local gunsmith who can fix yor MKII? It doesn't sound like anything serious, probably wouldn't cost much more than round trip shipping to Ruger. As far as the Single-six, I really enjoy mine, but I really don't think the accuracy compares to my MKI or MKII. The autos will regularly shoot an inch at 25yds, the single six will do close to that with the right 22 magnum load, but more like 2-3" with long rifle.

 

[CraigC]

Send it to Ruger or find a good local `smith to look at it. Even a good Single Six is no match for 'good' fixed barrel auto like the MKII. It's not really a fair comparison. While a 'good' Single Six may do an inch at 25yds with preferred ammo, a 'good' MKII should be able to halve that. I have a Buckmark Bullseye model that will quarter it if I hold my mouth just right.

 

[deac45]

Very rare to hear of a MKII that won't shoot reliably or accurately. How does the muzzle's crown look? Any dings or visible damage to the rifleing at the muzzle? As for the light strikes, I haven't a clue.
If it were mine I would strogly consider sending it back to Ruger for a good tune up or at least to a good, local 'smith. I would not get rid of it. After all, they are a classic and getting hard to find. And, with all the accessories and custom parts available you could have the foundation for a serious custom at hand.

deac45

 

[revhigh]

Very rare to hear of a MKII that won't shoot reliably or accurately.

I was thinking the same thing. I've never seen or heard of a MKII that wasn't a tack driver. I'd try some other ammo too before I sent it back. I'd try about a hundred things before I sent it back.

Try some different ammo .... if you don;t get light strikes, there's nothing wrong with the gun.

REV

 

[MacTech]

Well, this is interesting....

I've been doing some dry firing with fired .22lr shells in the MkII, CCI, Winchester and Remington brass drop right into the breech with no resistance, Federal brass had a tad more resistance, and each piece of Fed brass would not eject when I pulled the bolt back, they had to be coaxed out of the breech

Win, CCI, and Rem brass all showed good, solid firing pin strikes on unused areas of the rim, I generally dry fired each shell 3-4 times, each strike would have fired the round had it been a live round, each piece of Federal brass had a much shallower strike, and a couple that would have been light strikes, and as noted above, each Federal shell stuck in the breech

maybe I have a slightly out of spec batch of Federal bulk here, strangely enough though, my H&R 949 revolver has no problems with this box of bulk

I also tore down the bolt, and gave the firing pin a good polishing with 2000 grit sandpaper, not enough to remove metal, but enough to put a mirror shine on the FP

Looks like I'm going to need another excuse to rationalize the purchase of a Single Six then...

 

[maxpress]

sounds like you may have some ammo with a thin rim. happens sometimes. did you mic it to see? before reading your last post i was wondering if your barrel/chamber was set forward a little.

 

[revhigh]

Keep working on it ... you're doing everything right .... you'll be a lot more careful and a lot more thorough than Ruger, trust me. I'd estimate the fact that there's nothing wrong with that gun at 95%+.

REV

 

[Jayhawkhuntclub]

Ammo is key w/ 22's. Have you tried different ammo in your MKII?

Yep. My Mark II shoots 4+" groups with Federals and sub-2" groups with Winchesters (from a rest at 20 yards with open sights). These are averages. I will shoot sub-1" groups once in a while with the Winchester.

 

[Jayhawkhuntclub]

As to the original question: I don't think there is a "one size fits all" answer. It depends on the gun. I'm sure there are a lot of single sixes that can out shoot the average MK II and vice versa. On average, I don't think there is a significant difference. My GUESS is that the difference on average would be less than 1/4" difference in group size from a rest at 25 yards. Both are capable of being very accurate. I've always coveted the idea of having a 617 or a Single Six Hunter as a great (non-competitive) target pistol. My dad's hunter will shoot well under an inch at 20 yards. Mine arrives this week! :wink:

 

[CraigC]

My GUESS is that the difference on average would be less than 1/4" difference in group size from a rest at 25 yards.

I would have to say, as I already did, that the difference is much more significant than that. Mechanically speaking, it is easier to get a big bore centerfire revolver to shoot accurately than a .22 rimfire because they are less sensitive to alignment variations. A superbly accurate big bore will shoot into an inch or less at 25yds with preferred loads. While any decent fixed barrel auto can cut that in half, as I stated, with good ones shooting into a quarter inch at 25yds. Experience bears this out.

 

[VAdoublegunner]

As much as I like Single-Sixes, and I have a bunch of them, I don't think there is any Single-Six, even the Hunter models, that can match a good MKII for accuracy if it is set up right and with the right ammo. If there is any downside to the MKII, it is that the front sight is just too wide for good accuracy at any reasonable distance.

Both of my two KMK678GCs will shoot sub 1" groups at 50 yards from an improvised rest (rolled up towel) with ammo they like, either Wolf MT, Win Dynapoints, or lately Federal Lightning. But one has a 1 MOA Ultradot sight and the other a T/C 2x7 scope. My old KMK 678 would do about the same with a Burris 2x on it. It is easy to get a mount to fit a scope to a bull barrel Ruger even if the receiver isn't drilled and tapped.

Get the mainspring fixed (or firing pin) and spend your money on a mount and decent pistol scope if you want to maximize accuracy. Or get a Single-Six just because you might like one. Even though the MKIIs are inherently more accurate, I enjoy shooting the Single-Sixes more often at the range. The MKIIs go to the woods more often if really serious squirrel hunting is the objective.

 

[Bucks Owin]

Even a good Single Six is no match for 'good' fixed barrel auto like the MKII. It's not really a fair comparison. While a 'good' Single Six may do an inch at 25yds with preferred ammo, a 'good' MKII should be able to halve that. I have a Buckmark Bullseye model that will quarter it if I hold my mouth just right.

You have better eyes than me if you can quarter a 1" group! But I'm glad this OM SS6 is a "good" one. Some say .22 WMR won't shoot as tight as .22 LR but I get by..... :wink:

 

[Jayhawkhuntclub]

My GUESS is that the difference on average would be less than 1/4" difference in group size from a rest at 25 yards.

I would have to say, as I already did, that the difference is much more significant than that. Mechanically speaking, it is easier to get a big bore centerfire revolver to shoot accurately than a .22 rimfire because they are less sensitive to alignment variations. A superbly accurate big bore will shoot into an inch or less at 25yds with preferred loads. While any decent fixed barrel auto can cut that in half, as I stated, with good ones shooting into a quarter inch at 25yds. Experience bears this out.

So you are suggesting a good MK II can consistantly shoot 1/4" groups at 25 yards? Maybe so, but I guess I've never seen that. I know a good scoped single six can consistently shoot sub 1"groups, probably sub 3/4" groups: from a good rest. It ,maybe more than 1/4" difference, it's not much more, IMO. We are just talking about 25 yards here. BTW, are these stock factory autos that shoot these 1/4" groups? I guess none of my friends have had the luck to find one of these. I'm not saying you're wrong, but you make it sound like a "good" not exceptional auto is able to shoot 1/4" groups consistently. I've not found that to be the case, but then again I'm not really a hard core auto guy. I also don't own a Ransom Rest.

 

[MacTech]

Well, I'm back with a range report on my tempermental MkII, it look like my firing pin polishing job worked brilliantly, with the same Federal red box bulk ammo that had been light-striking on me last weekend in the same mags, this time I ran 100 rounds through the MkII with *NO* failures, it was the first time in a long while I can remember this pistol performing absolutely flawlessly, the "fluff 'n buff" job I did on it worked better than expected

I still want a Single Six though, now I just have to figure out a different rationalization...

I know, I don't have any firearm capable of firing .22Mag and I really *should* have one capable of handling that cartridge, sounds like a good enough reason to me

Now to save the pennies up for a decent used Single Six Convertible, oh and come to think of it, I should also have a Blackhawk Convertible in .38Spl/.357Mag/9mm too.... Oh crap, my Rugeritis is out of remission again....

 

[Leucoandro]

maybe I have a slightly out of spec batch of Federal bulk here, strangely enough though, my H&R 949 revolver has no problems with this box of bulk

The Barrel that came on my MKII is very similar to the Match barrel that came on my Green Mountain barrel for my 10/22. I suspect that your MKII chamber is made to tighter tollerances than your H&R 949 Revolver.

I have found as some others have said, that the MKII can be a bit hard to shoot accuratly. I can shoot my fathers Buckmark Camper more accurate than he can, and he can shoot my MKII more accurate than I can.


Charlie