Semi-autos won't run

Help Support Ruger Forum:

HammerMTB

Bearcat
Joined
Nov 28, 2009
Messages
28
My first post on this forum. I spent some time searching to see if I might find some possible solutions as to why my 10/22 and MkII won't run reliably, but didn't find it.
I hope to tap the collective wisdom here for some possible solutions.
Based on past experience, I better give some background first.
I've been shooting and tinkering with guns for 40 years. Most times I can make 'em do what they are designed to do.
These 2 have been more than a little finicky. I should add that I am NOT pointing a finger at Ruger or any design issue. I work in a design/test facility (heavy-duty automotive, not gun related) and this is not a design issue, just a mechanics issue.
I will describe the 10/22 jams first.
In a nutshell, it has a lot of FTEs. Most times there is a spent casing stuck between bolt and breechface, and a new round pushed up part-way to battery along with the empty casing. The gun is freshly disassembled, cleaned, and oiled. I put a drop of oil on the first round in 2 mags to assure the chamber was oiled.
My thought is the spring is too strong for the ammo. The bolt doesn't slide all the way back, so the empty is carried forward again and jams the works. Has anyone fussed with springs? I will add that it is not just the ammo, I tried several different kinds. I also ran some of the ammo over my chrono, and velocities are ~1200 FPS, which should be plenty for cycling the action.
I have some 25 round aftermarket mags, and a stock 10 round, and all do the same thing.

I think the MkII is simpler. Its most common jam is failure to fully close the slide. I can always push the slide the last 1/8" shut with my thumb. It would seem the jam is the extractor not jumping over the rim of the round as it closes. Again, the gun has been fully disassembled, cleaned, oiled, and reassembled. The bbl and chamber were lightly oiled before starting a session, and after 5 mags I quit on it as it was not going to run.
I have polished the front side of the extractor in an effort to reduce any resistance to closure. I may look at it again under a magnifying loupe to see if there is some tiny burr I may have missed.
I want to blame a spring again, but not too sure that's the answer.
I could see a bad mag, but I have 5, and all do the same thing.

If you've had this happen, and found a solution, I'd welcome your experience.
 

9x19

Hunter
Joined
Dec 1, 1999
Messages
2,429
Chambers should be run dry, not oiled.

The 10/22 may be a bad extractor, which has happened often enough that both Volquartsen and Power Custom offer better made replacements at reasonable cost.

The MkII may need a new recoil spring, as closing the bolt is it's main job.

Ammo could also be a factor with both, as rim fires are famous for being finicky about ammo... CCI Mini-Mags are usually the gold standard in terms of reliability.
 

tomiswho

Single-Sixer
Joined
Feb 2, 2008
Messages
323
Some time ago, I had a similar problem with a Standard 6" Ruger took great care of me and that 1968 pistol has worked like a charm ever since. I don't remember just what they said, but they did change the grip frame to an A100.
letter.jpg
 

HammerMTB

Bearcat
Joined
Nov 28, 2009
Messages
28
Well, to answer a few of the Q's above-
My go-to ammo is CCI Mini-Mags. Best performance when the guns will run, lowest SD's, etc
But, last Saturday neither of them would run much. The 10/22 would run a little, and slowly got me thru the match I was in, tho turning in a very poor performance.
I think I saw the problem with both.
The MkII had a hitch in its get-along right where the bolt always hangs up. It was the extractor hitting the barrel face in the extractor groove. There was an obvious polished spot where it hit and stopped the bolt.
After some consideration, I filed some more off the extractor to reduce the interference at that point. Hit it with both coarse and medium diamond hones to smooth it as much as possible.
It feels better now but I haven't gotten it to the range to find out.

The 10/22 looked to have a bent ejector. There wasn't any drag I could feel, but it was obvious to my eye the ejector was not straight. I'm not even certain it would make a difference, but that's what I'm gonna go with for now.

I may order up some PC extractors just cause it'd be an easy place to eliminate a possible issue.

Last, all the shooters in the club here seem to think it's a good idea to oil the first round going into the chamber to carry some oil in there. It certainly hasn't hurt anything. Any other input?
 

blume357

Hawkeye
Joined
Nov 15, 2005
Messages
8,581
My first thought was too much oil also... but I suspect with the 10/22 it's not just one thing... but probably a combination of the extractor being a little off and the oiled chamber....

I was shooting my 10/22 on Friday... first 25 round mag (Butler Creek Steel lips) had about two jams like you mentioned... 2nd one had 1... then the third one I emptied the mag as fast as I could pull the trigger.... it is not unusual in my experience to have to shoot a few rounds through a clean 22 before it starts to smooth out.
 

HammerMTB

Bearcat
Joined
Nov 28, 2009
Messages
28
I fixed 'em both.
I got some Power Custom extractors, but while they were a'comin', I got the MKII apart and took my dremel to the extractor slot in the bbl. It was evident that there was some interference there. I tried taking a bit off the extractor first, but didn't want to take too much, making it too narrow and weak right where it had to be strongest.
The PC extractors showed up. They are nice looking, but I noticed that they fit very tightly in the bolt slot. So tightly that they almost wouldn't go in at all. Not good, I thought, so I honed just a bit off them.
Put one in the MKII and it now runs fine on 4 of 5 mags. Now I seem to have one mag to fix or throw away.

The 10-22 I cut one turn off the recoil spring. Everything it did told me the spring was too strong, tho it would work, haltingly sometimes. I'd had it apart to hone the bolt and inside of the receiver.
Just because I could, I left the PC extractor out until I found out what this change might make.
It runs now on the stock mag. Gotta try my hi-cap mags another time. I suspect they will run too now.
Anyone with input on the MKII mag? Seems I have read (here?) that there is a common mis-fit to them that is easily cured. I've compared it to all the working mags and can't see a difference in the lips or follower....
 

3leggeddog

Single-Sixer
Joined
Aug 3, 2009
Messages
267
HammerMTB":3tod176d said:
My first post on this forum. I spent some time searching to see if I might find some possible solutions as to why my 10/22 and MkII won't run reliably, but didn't find it.
I hope to tap the collective wisdom here for some possible solutions.
Based on past experience, I better give some background first.
I've been shooting and tinkering with guns for 40 years. Most times I can make 'em do what they are designed to do.
These 2 have been more than a little finicky. I should add that I am NOT pointing a finger at Ruger or any design issue. I work in a design/test facility (heavy-duty automotive, not gun related) and this is not a design issue, just a mechanics issue.
I will describe the 10/22 jams first.
In a nutshell, it has a lot of FTEs. Most times there is a spent casing stuck between bolt and breechface, and a new round pushed up part-way to battery along with the empty casing. The gun is freshly disassembled, cleaned, and oiled. I put a drop of oil on the first round in 2 mags to assure the chamber was oiled.
My thought is the spring is too strong for the ammo. The bolt doesn't slide all the way back, so the empty is carried forward again and jams the works. Has anyone fussed with springs? I will add that it is not just the ammo, I tried several different kinds. I also ran some of the ammo over my chrono, and velocities are ~1200 FPS, which should be plenty for cycling the action.
I have some 25 round aftermarket mags, and a stock 10 round, and all do the same thing.

I think the MkII is simpler. Its most common jam is failure to fully close the slide. I can always push the slide the last 1/8" shut with my thumb. It would seem the jam is the extractor not jumping over the rim of the round as it closes. Again, the gun has been fully disassembled, cleaned, oiled, and reassembled. The bbl and chamber were lightly oiled before starting a session, and after 5 mags I quit on it as it was not going to run.
I have polished the front side of the extractor in an effort to reduce any resistance to closure. I may look at it again under a magnifying loupe to see if there is some tiny burr I may have missed.
I want to blame a spring again, but not too sure that's the answer.
I could see a bad mag, but I have 5, and all do the same thing.

If you've had this happen, and found a solution, I'd welcome your experience.


hello, I did the mag mod and it fix it go to and read this : I just rounded off the rear [front of] corners.

http://www.1bad69.com/ruger/stovepipe.htm
 

mohavesam

Hawkeye
Joined
Jan 4, 2004
Messages
5,847
Nothing wrong with a trip to Clarkguns for a reliability package. Sometimes a professional can actually get results that kitchen-table 'smithing cannot resolve. ;)

dry chambers. quality ammo. recoil spring, extractor operation. It's not a very complex machine afterall...
 

HammerMTB

Bearcat
Joined
Nov 28, 2009
Messages
28
3leggeddog":26cnfd34 said:
hello, I did the mag mod and it fix it go to and read this : I just rounded off the rear [front of] corners.

http://www.1bad69.com/ruger/stovepipe.htm

5 of my 6 mags ran flawlessly with just the extractor/bbl work. One had just the hiccup described in the link.
I rounded off the mag corners as the link described, and still had a lot of drag over the front 1/2 of the mag when the bolt passed it.
I took maybe a 1/32" off the bottom of the mag, and it runs fine now.
Oiled chamber and all.
 

bada61265

Single-Sixer
Joined
Nov 8, 2009
Messages
105
still find it amazing people still buy into the oiling the bullet trick. running a patch thru the bore lightly oiled after a cleaning is all it should ever need as far as bore oiling is concerned. excessive oil and i would rate oiling to bullets in the clip as excessive, only speeds up the accumulation of dirt and debris in the action and especially around the breach area. you really do need to stop listening to those who are recommending this practice. not only will it get dirty fast but oils can seep into the cartridge making any powder or primer material inert, making shot to shot consistancy a crap shoot.
 

HammerMTB

Bearcat
Joined
Nov 28, 2009
Messages
28
bada61265":1gyb40ma said:
still find it amazing people still buy into the oiling the bullet trick. running a patch thru the bore lightly oiled after a cleaning is all it should ever need as far as bore oiling is concerned. excessive oil and i would rate oiling to bullets in the clip as excessive, only speeds up the accumulation of dirt and debris in the action and especially around the breach area. you really do need to stop listening to those who are recommending this practice. not only will it get dirty fast but oils can seep into the cartridge making any powder or primer material inert, making shot to shot consistancy a crap shoot.

How long ya reckon that oil spent on the bullet in the "clip"? And it's only the first one, not every one down the pipe....
A minute?
10 seconds?
S'pose it will soak thru all the rounds in the MAGAZINE in that time?
Does your MkII take a clip?

And how long will it take to get dirty?
An hour?
2 hours?
100 rounds?
200 rounds?
Cause it's about 2 hours and 200 rounds 'til the contest is over.

Ya might want to stop and think befroe issuing ill thought out or poorly directed advice.
 

bansheex

Bearcat
Joined
Dec 12, 2009
Messages
11
Sir, I have been around guns for 40+ years and started shooting pistol matches at 15, and am still at it. In all that time, I have never heard or seen anyone oiling a bullet. Now I'm not saying it's a bad or good thing. I have always run a last oil patch down the barrel.

It seems to me that if someone is asking for advice, it should be accepted or considered but not criticized.

I on the other hand have ordered extractors for both my 10-22 and my 22/45 I have seen to many posts suggesting the replacement of the weak factory parts.

I wish you good luck in your shooting
 

berettapistols

Blackhawk
Joined
Feb 2, 2004
Messages
655
"Too Much" Lubricant..
The only lube that should be present is a wipe on the bolt sides, there should be "NONE" present on the "Bolt Face", "Bullets", "Barrel", "Chamber" etc. All these areas should be "DRY", Do oil the half moon of the Bolt spring on the MKII & a small bit on the spring itself..
I also recomend the Volquartzen extractor as I've seen these make a "Jam Every Time Shot" Gun into a Range Master, Seriously!!
The VQ extractor goes into every MKII & 10/22 I've ever have..

In theory the Bullet Rim should slip under the extractor as it's fed from the magazine, the extractor doesn't jump over the rim unless a round is dropped into the chamber & the bolt dropped onto it..
The VQ extractor has a beveled lower tip that helps aid the round slipping up under it & also is designed to help hold the round against the chamber tighter than the Original Desined which helps when the spent case strikes the ejector kicking the case from the weapon..

As far as ammo goes "Most" people recomend the CCI MiniMags for use in any "Ammo Finicky" 22lr..
I have great success with the Federal 550 Bulk ammo bought @ Wal-Mart, It has run 100% in My MKIIs & 10/22s..
The copper washed lead bullets are cleaner than the standard LRN..
Stay away from Remington 22 ammo, I "Had" some of thier Bulk stuff & it would only function in a Nylon 66, Nothing else???

Do a "Super Clean" of the weapons, The bores may be "Caked" with lead/oil sludge, In fact I garentee it..
Use a tooth pic or dental pick & get every bit of lead, carbon etc out of the action, Disassemble the bolt on the MKII, This is a little tougher on the 10/22 as it requires a roll pin punch, you can also spray it with gun scrubber while pushing on the firing pin from the rear..
Have every part spottless..
The ejector of the 10/22 "May be Bent" but being it's easily removed from the trigger group it could easily be straigtened back out on an anvil with a hammer or pinched in a smooth jawed vise..
The ejector of the MKIIs is fixed into the reciever but if bent "Could" be straightened with a pair of needle nose pliars gently, Break this off & your gun will be going back to Ruger.. Don't touch it if unsure..

Good Luck with your Rugers HammerMTB
 
Top