SBH SPITTING ...UPDATE ....

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steelheadnw

Bearcat
Joined
Feb 2, 2008
Messages
67
Location
montana
I have some questions about my new to me SBH project.... Here's the problem: my SBH spits a a lot of debris from the cylinder gap, much more than any revolver I own, to the point of causing bleeding on my face.. I did take it in to the local smith and the cylinders line up, cylinder gap is .006, the forcing cone is within spec and timing is fine...

I slugged the barrel and it comes out at .430, the cylinder mouths are in the .433- .434 range by slugging them also.

The spitting is not noticable with .430 sized cast, very bad with
Remington 240's and 240 XTP's..

Do you think this is a cylinder throat issue? would a 11 Degree forcing cone help?
Would Ruger repair a SBH that has the barrel cut to 4-5/8??

I'd Appreciate your thoughts,

James
 

flatgate

Hawkeye
Joined
Jun 18, 2001
Messages
6,784
Location
Star Valley, WY
I'll have to inquire as to what sort of technique did your "local 'smith" use to check barrel to chamber alignment? The "run of the mill" range rod, as sold by the gunsmithing tool suppliers, only provides a very coarse measurement of said alignment. You may still have some misalignment that is enough to make those Remington bullets "splatter" a bit. I'd clean the gun really well then shoot a cylinder full of those particular bullets then inspect the forcing cone area very carefully.

Yes, IMHO, a forcing cone cut to 11° would probably help.

Of course, the easy answer is to stick with the far superior cast bullets and toss those Remingtons in the trash.

JMHO,

flatgate
 

steelheadnw

Bearcat
Joined
Feb 2, 2008
Messages
67
Location
montana
Yes the Smith I took the Revolver to used a range rod.

Let me add more to this story.... I Purchased this SBH for a project it is a very pretty high polish early new model. It has been shot but still tight although the timing was the worst of any Ruger revolver I have seen.. I replaced the pawl and it is nearly perfect after some fitting. Cut the Barrel to 4-5/8, added an alloy xr3-red grip frame and grips, and a millet rear sight.

Then to the shooting, two cylinders full of 240 xtps resulted in two spots bleeding from my cheek and neck, probably one too many, then my trip to the Local Smith, he gives it the nothings really outa wack stamp. Fully cleaned back to the range with some cast 240's, shot well no splatter, a cylinder full of remington 240's and I'm bleeding again..

After my last post I got the JB paste out and scrubbed the forcing cone and inspected it closely and it appears to be eroded as if it was shot quite a bit with the timing off. The erosion is in the 9- 12 oclock area of the forcing cone. I'm gonna take a stab that this is the culprit of my spitting if it isn't the overly generous cylinder throats. Does any one think that they are too big .434??

What would you suggest as a fix? I'll probably try the 11 degree forcing cone as I have the tool coming this way.. Is barrel replacement next?

James
 

steelheadnw

Bearcat
Joined
Feb 2, 2008
Messages
67
Location
montana
pictures.. Hope this helps

idaho098.jpg


idaho099.jpg


idaho100.jpg
 

tek4260

Buckeye
Joined
May 31, 2008
Messages
1,886
Location
carroll county ms
Looks like you found your culprit in that forcing cone. Does this gun have the original base pin or a Belt Mtn? I have heard that they can raise the cylinder a fraction and cause a problem (still can't quite visualize that or figure how it raises it). Also looks like a lot of battering at the bushing and flame cutting in the window. Might call Ruger and explain the spitting and let them repair it.

Great up close pics BTW.
 

flatgate

Hawkeye
Joined
Jun 18, 2001
Messages
6,784
Location
Star Valley, WY
Ugh, as I suspected, the "run of the mill" range rod tells NOTHING. One needs Ruger Guru Iowegean's Range Rods!

You need some "line boring" help and a new forcing cone, IMHO. That's one messed up gun!

Or, ask Ruger for help, however you'll say goodbye to the original cylinder and barrel.

Plan B; sell the gun and get another. Usually much cheaper......

One in 10,000 Rugers give trouble. You've got one.

JMHO, been there/done that and now mine has a "warning" barrel and non counterbored cylinder and it shoots very nice groups.

flatgate
 

steelheadnw

Bearcat
Joined
Feb 2, 2008
Messages
67
Location
montana
I've owned so many I guess is was about time to get a lemon.. Thanks for the help and suggestions. I'm going to go the Ruger route. Hopefully I can get a 4-5/8" for it and dare I dream to have the warning on the bottom..

james
 
Joined
Dec 11, 2002
Messages
9,068
Location
Ohio , U.S.A.
cheapest is to open the forcing cone and "try again.........." you put lot of time and effort in it so far, why quit now............one of the reasons we like a little "wiggle room " in the lock up...its a completely different matter when you have it "line bored and a tight lockup"...thats why that is so "costly"...........
now its not impossible you could have one, out odfwack (bent) not aligned or the cylinder frame drilled "off center" ..."stuff happens " like Flatgate says................but if it checks out with a range rod, that should be "close enough......." with an "opened "forcing cone

Lastly, if it does it with "certain ammo".....me, I'd NOT use that ammo anymore...........some guns "like" certain ammo and not others.....
 

J Miller

Blackhawk
Joined
Sep 30, 2000
Messages
977
Location
Not in IL anymore ... :)
steelheadnw,

This is just my opinion as a Ruger owner and shooter, not as a gunsmith, but if that were my gun, I'd go for a new barrel. I would not send it back to Ruger either. There are gunsmiths out there that do this work.

That barrel is toast as it sits. It needs to be set back a turn, faced off and a new forcing cone cut. I doubt that recutting the forcing cone will clean enough of that erosion up to cure the problem. However if you have the tools coming you might as well try.

JMHO

Joe
 

steelheadnw

Bearcat
Joined
Feb 2, 2008
Messages
67
Location
montana
Thanks for all the Replies.. I did do an 11 degree forcing cone but it did not remove all of the erosion, it did spit much less but still spits. Off to Ruger it goes.

James
 

steelheadnw

Bearcat
Joined
Feb 2, 2008
Messages
67
Location
montana
My Super Blackhawk returned from Ruger the other day in a big brown box. The repairs were stated as new hammer, new pawl, new transfer bar, 5 new screws and throat repaired. I got a chance to get out to the range today to run some (shhh don't tell Flatgate) Remington 240 JSP's over 19gr. 2400..
It shot quite well and I didn't bleed once. Ruger did a nice job of repairing it for exactly no charge on a 35 year old handgun. I still have my recessed cylinder and high polish warning free barrel.
James

before
idaho098.jpg

after, looks like they opened it up more than I did with the 11 degree reamer and it also looks like they chamfered the edge, interesting...
IMG_0661.jpg

Target, 25 yards.
IMG_0652.jpg
 

flatgate

Hawkeye
Joined
Jun 18, 2001
Messages
6,784
Location
Star Valley, WY
SteelheadNW,

Bummer! I don't like what I see at all! The rough cuts should NOT be there!

Man, I'd call Ruger and say "BS!", politely, of course and request further assistance. I have a few Rugers in my collection, both shooters and "safe queens" and I've NEVER, EVER seen anything that approaches the likes of your barrel! Be polite but be firm when you call. If satisfaction seems distant then ask for "higher Management"! And, tell them you are a Ruger Forum Member and are a Big Fan of the Ruger products.

flatgate
 

Carry_Up

Single-Sixer
Joined
Dec 22, 2007
Messages
376
Location
Dallas, TX
I agree with flatgate - a range rod is of no use to you to check cylinder alignment. Secondly, look carefully at the f/c photos by tn gun runner. That's how the f/c should look. Now look at the work done by Ruger, the edge of the cone is at a different angle than the main cone. Sadly it looks like someone used a hand drill to deburr the end of the barrel. See all those chatter marks? That's a problem! Also just as important as a clean f/c is having the cylinder square with the frame and barrel. You can easily check that one by using feeler gauges inserted from each side, noting any differences in the gap from one side to the other. Back to Ruger for a new barrel. I would tell them exactly what you expect - a clean cone without the gross chattermarks. How disappointing!

C_U
 

steelheadnw

Bearcat
Joined
Feb 2, 2008
Messages
67
Location
montana
Ok, here's what I've been through with Ruger Service in the last two years. I sent in a stainless bearcat for horrible accuracy 6-12 inch groups at 25 yards and severe lead shaving. after $65, Fed-Ex happily shipped it off. When it returns the forcing cone is huge, the gun still spits but is certainly more accurate.. gun sold.. Now the SBH $65, the Brown Van takes it off to Ruger, the face of the barrel as you noted was probably dressed with drill bit, and the forcing cone looks like it was formed with a little beach sand as lube.. On the plus side it does shoot well, doesn't lead up with cast loads or spit with any of my loads. Yes the work was disappointing, and sadly what I have experienced from Ruger on the last two repairs they have done for me. Do I Send it off again for another $65, any guaranty it will come back looking professionally done, will it shoot any better, maybe worse.

James
 

redeux

Bearcat
Joined
Aug 19, 2008
Messages
26
people get mad at me because i 'don't give ruger a chance to do it right' , B*******! they show by their attitude that they don't care about it being right ...
out of the last 18-20 ruger pistols/revolvers that were sent to us 4 were good enough to keep...
it wasn't this way 10-12 years ago...
 
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