Ruger PCC in 40 S&W

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grobin

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Mar 8, 2016
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Well now the smoke has cleared the PC9 is still selling well, the PC40 has big discounts but isn't moving that well.

Why? At least here the 40 isn't popular. None of the LEO drank the FBI Kool Aid! Neither the 9 nor the 40 is legal except for varmets (not fox nor cyote). For plinking and target the 40 has no advantage and the ammo is less available and costs more. For home defense not much to choose. If a vest is involved neither is adequate!

I hope that they sell well so we will see a 10mm or 45! The 10mm would be better as it's legal for hunting.
 

grobin

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846
Why not the 10mm? It's legal for hunting everywhere and the 45 pretty much nowhere! For SD,HD and CC they are pretty much same same; although the 45 has a slight advantage for CC (some of the striker fired 45s are pretty conceilable)!
 

grobin

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Considering all the current pistols, except possibly the desert eagle, are pure blowback everyone disagrees with you! Well I kind of agree, a gas or delayed blow back would be desirable, but there you need to go to a carbine configuration or a perversion like the AR pistols.
 

SteelBlue

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Apr 13, 2017
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From Wikipedia on blowback actions:

"Due to the required bolt weight, blowback designs in pistols are generally limited to calibers smaller than 9×19mm Parabellum (e.g., .25 ACP, .32 ACP, .380 ACP, 9×18mm Makarov, etc.) There are exceptions such as the simple blowback pistols from Hi-Point Firearms which include models chambered in .45 ACP, .40 S&W, .380 ACP and 9×19mm Parabellum.

Most blowback carbines and submachine guns are chambered for pistol cartridges such as the 9×19mm Parabellum, .40 S&W and .45 ACP."

Conclusion: 45ACP and 40 S&W are about as powerful a round that can be handled in a pure blowback action such as the PCC. I believe that the 45ACP will make its way to the PCC, but not the 10mm. You are not correct by stating that all current pistols are pure blowback. They are a delayed blowback based the 1911 action where the case is not ejected until after the bullet has left the barrel. The PCC is pure blowback, not delayed.
 

grobin

Blackhawk
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846
You are quite right. The old M10 in 45 ACP fired from an open bolt and is one of the few that I can remember. I have an Aero in 10mm but that fires from a locked bolt. With the design of the Ruger aside from excessive weight I don't see a big problem with 10mm, but a locked bolt is preferable. Maybe a mini?
 

SteelBlue

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Apr 13, 2017
Messages
423
A mini would be nice, but some mods would have to be done to accommodate a pistol length cartridge. Even better: bring back something similar to the .44 Carbine or Deerfield gas operated short action. I have two each of these and truly enjoy them. They are obviously more expensive to make than a pure blowback, so I suspect Ruger isn't going to go in that direction.
 

mac66

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Oct 27, 2013
Messages
336
SteelBlue said:
From Wikipedia on blowback actions:

"Due to the required bolt weight, blowback designs in pistols are generally limited to calibers smaller than 9×19mm Parabellum (e.g., .25 ACP, .32 ACP, .380 ACP, 9×18mm Makarov, etc.) There are exceptions such as the simple blowback pistols from Hi-Point Firearms which include models chambered in .45 ACP, .40 S&W, .380 ACP and 9×19mm Parabellum.

Most blowback carbines and submachine guns are chambered for pistol cartridges such as the 9×19mm Parabellum, .40 S&W and .45 ACP."

Conclusion: 45ACP and 40 S&W are about as powerful a round that can be handled in a pure blowback action such as the PCC. I believe that the 45ACP will make its way to the PCC, but not the 10mm. You are not correct by stating that all current pistols are pure blowback. They are a delayed blowback based the 1911 action where the case is not ejected until after the bullet has left the barrel. The PCC is pure blowback, not delayed.

Except Hi-Point now makes a blow back carbine in 10mm. It seems to work. I personally am pretty ho-hum about the 10mm in general, but it can be done in a blow back carbine and if it floats your boat, go for it.
 

gs50401

Bearcat
Joined
Jul 10, 2017
Messages
32
Wouldn't a PCC carbine in 40 be the equal of a 10mm pistol? Same power in a more shootable package. Maybe even legal for Deer in some states.
 

grobin

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Mar 8, 2016
Messages
846
No! Case volume is the problem. Not enough room for a slow burning powder. Similar to the 9mm which doesn't get the expected MV increase. Factory loads are optimized for the stubby snubby~3" barrels for 9mm. If the syntech PCC takes off this might improve.
 

mac66

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Oct 27, 2013
Messages
336
grobin said:
No! Case volume is the problem. Not enough room for a slow burning powder. Similar to the 9mm which doesn't get the expected MV increase. Factory loads are optimized for the stubby snubby~3" barrels for 9mm. If the syntech PCC takes off this might improve.

Not necessarily. 9mm gets a substantial boost out of long barrel i.e, 200 FPS in some cases. Of course it depends on the load but generally a 9 out of a rifle will do better than out of a pistol. The velocity gain of a 40 isn't as much but again it depends on the load you use.

Here's a comparison...

https://www.mcarbo.com/9mm-trajectory-chart-vs-40-s-w-trajectory-chart.aspx
 

grobin

Blackhawk
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Mar 8, 2016
Messages
846
Looking at a larger cartridge like the 45LC Buffalo Bore reports 300fps for a 4" length increase. Going from 4" barrel to an 18" barrel in 9mm BBI ireports a maximum of 300fps. Far lower than can be expected (600+ fps). With the common gain being 150-200fps.

Similarly for .40 BBI reports a max gain of 200fps.
Again much less than can be reasonably expected. (Commonaly the gain is <150fps far lower.)

For the 10mm gains are 150 to 300fps. Still far lower than expected.
 

Bayouhunter

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Joined
Nov 23, 2010
Messages
386
Location
South Alabama
I like 40S&W my cast load 1 to 20 lead alloy B10 hardness looks like this loose sand at 7 yds out of XD subcompact. 1 or 2 of these will do a lot of damage. If I have to confront body armor I hope my aim will make the difference. I hope to never have to find out.

 

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