Ruger p90 conversion ?

[COFFEE POT]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face=" Verdana">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Friday:
<B>Sorry didn't mean to offend you just pointing out some of the holes I noticed in your statements.

My mistake I assumed it was a discussion,
if it's merely a sermon to the true believers then I'll let you carry on.</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

No offense taken. I was merely giving a little history lesson of the events that occured at the time. Being an industry insider, I was privy to much more information than was released to the public. What you refer to as 'holes' in my statements may conflict with what you have heard, but it doesn't make them any less true. I was there in the middle of it, were you? If so, then I will gladly defer to your contradictions.

In addition, just because part and model numbers don't change, it doesn't mean that the parts haven't changed, you know , Rev. A, Rev. B, etc or in the computer jargon of today, version 1.0, 1.1, 1.2, etc.

The manufacturers are continually changing their designs with most changes being transparent to the consumer. Do you really believe that all the models and parts have remained the same over the last 15 years or so? Intrnal/external change to these guns is an ongoing process. If you go back to the makes and models offered 15 years ago, how many of those models are still in existance in their original configuration, or have they been replaced by a 'new and improved' version. That's where all the required modifications came to market. The entire industry has dealt with the 'birthing' of the .40 cal/10mm cartridges admirably. Some did their homework beforehand, others waited to see if there would be problems. Everybody wanted to be the first on the block with the new calibers on the shelves. Those that showed up a little late, generally had the better guns because they did their homework. The first ones on the shelves had a lot of problems. All the manufacturers have long since taken care of their glitches or removed some offerings.

Today, both the .40 and 10mm guns out there are well made and suitable for the cartridges, but it didn't come without some 'birthing pain' along the way.

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Coffee Pot

"He who knows others is wise, He who knows himself is enlightened"

[This message has been edited by COFFEE POT (edited 04-26-2007).]

[This message has been edited by COFFEE POT (edited 04-26-2007).]

 

[Bullshot]

Friday:

I suspect that Coffee Pot was working for Ruger in a design and or manufacturing capacity in the past. Anyone can tell you that at that level, certain proprietary information can't be devulge if good relations are to be maintained with your former employer. I believe that he's telling you all that he can within the limits of exit agreement with Ruger. And if he's proud of the fact that he worked with Ruger for 15 plus years, loyalty and trust also enters into the picture with his former employer. In other words, without devulging trade secrets, I believe that his statement that the P-90 was designed only for the 45 ACP is a valid one.

Bullshot

Originally posted by Friday:
Well that's just it CP you were privy to all this inside information, but you're not sharing it with us.

 

[COFFEE POT]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face=" Verdana">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Friday:
<B>Even if he can't divulge trade secrets he could still tell us the extent of the development. It's not a tip-top secrect that there was some development. The FBI in their notes on the 10mm mentions Ruger as one of the companies working on a 10mm, and Massad Ayoob has stated on several occasions the Ruger was designed with 10mm in mind, so it obviously it got beyond the chit-chatting around the water-cooler stage.

What stage of development did the P90 and 10mm reach?

Surely Ruger isn't going to disown him and hate his guts forever for sharing some little tidbits that would shed some light on this subject.</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Massad Ayoob is a good friend to Ruger. As I've already told you, the 10mm was 'considered'. He and a lot of other gun writers also knew it was being 'considered'. I will not tell you anything about the development process nor at what point the decision was made to drop it. What you choose to believe or not is your business. I always tell the folks here as much as I can about a design that is on the market and try to help as much as possible when they have a problem without stepping over the line. But, you will get no R&D information from me. You don't like it, sorry, but that's the way it is and will continue to be.

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Coffee Pot

"He who knows others is wise, He who knows himself is enlightened"

 

[poncaguy]

Coffee Pot, what's the impulse on the 357 Sig? I know I prefer it to the 40 in my Glock 22, though the recoil seems about the same, I like it better.

 

[COFFEE POT]

You know, Friday, I do have to give you an 'A' for effort in your attempts to obtain technical information to which even most Ruger employees didn't have access.

After working on the 10mm and .40 cal projects you know that there is no way I could possibly have an 'opinion' on what you ask. Whatever I would say would give you some technical information that I'm not willing to give.

Once more, I never said that Ruger couldn't modify the P90 to accept the 10mm. What I said was that the cost of the required modifications, coupled with the decline of the popularity of the 10mm did not indicate a viable return on investment so the project was dropped.

You can come up with any method you deem fit to obtain what you want from ridicule to insults to anything else you may wish to try. I've had years of practice keeping information confidential and am familiar with most methods intended to extract it. They don't affect me as I understand their intention. Don't waste your time. There is a very clear line that I will not cross. Sorry guy, but that's the way it is.

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Coffee Pot

"He who knows others is wise, He who knows himself is enlightened"

 

[Solitar]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face=" Verdana">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by COFFEE POT:
I've seen them, too. Also in .45 Super. By the numbers, it's not a good idea. I doubt you'll blow up the gun, but you will surely beat it to death in a short time.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
I've put a 16lb Wolff Spring in my P90 so that I could shoot .45 Super. From Texas Ammo I got some of the last of their 185 grain .45 Super and 200 grain Super Express -- both advertised as 1300 feet per second. I must say they were a handful -- not for extended range practice. But they did chono near or above what Texas Ammo advertised. Ten rounds of 185 grain averaged 1321 fps with a range from 1304 to 1346 fps. Ten rounds of 200 grain averaged 1271 fps with a range of 1258 to 1286 fps. I'm happy with that power level.
BUT
I'm concerned about just how many rounds would be too many for my P90DC. I can't afford to shoot much of the .45 Super anyway, but I got it so that my P90 could suffice for what I'd prefer a 10mm to do -- as self defense against black bear and mountain lion in the mountains hereabouts. Yes, I know I really need a .44 magnum for that job -- but I'd rather not carry both my P90 and my S&W 629.



[This message has been edited by Solitar (edited 06-03-2007).]

 

[Leucoandro]

Coffee Pot,

I had a question for you. You mentioned that the P91 was dropped because of sales, while the P94 remained.

I was wondering, was the P94 in 9mm dropped from poor sales as a result of the introduction of the P95?

Charlie

 

[COFFEE POT]

Both the P93 and P94 9mm guns never were very stellar in sales. They wouldn't do anything that the P89 wouldn't do and were more costly. With the introduction of the P95 and it's low price tag, that pretty well sounded the death knell for the both the P93 and P94 9mm pistols.

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Coffee Pot

"He who knows others is wise, He who knows himself is enlightened"

 

[chakabra23]

Long time member and lurker here . . .

Hey Coffee Pot, I'm assuming you're classically trained in Engineering, probably Mechanical? Are you a registered PE? Are you a member of your professional society, ASME or some other?

Hehe, I ask because I'm finally walking in one week with my BSME! Grad school in the Fall. Taking Engineering Ethics noew, I just wanted to let you know that, even though as much as we would like to know, I'm glad that you maintained your professionalism and not delve into details . . .

As for this topic, I'd love for Ruger to make a semi-auto 10mm pistol, preferably in the 5-6 inch barrel ranges. Hell, since I'm wishing, I'd love to see a semi-auto offering to compete with the G26! Heck, I'd consider getting the P345 if it was in 5-6 inch barrel configuration . . . My main targets are paper.

 

[toysoldier]

Friday, I can't understand where you're coming from. I'm happy to get whatever information Coffeepot provides. I was taught to say "Thank you" when someone gave me something, and not to wheedle for more. I think Coffepot has shown his gentility in dealing with your demands. I'd have flamed you long ago.

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Missouri Boy in Kansas

 

[COFFEE POT]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face=" Verdana">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Solitar:
<B>

Originally posted by COFFEE POT:
I've seen them, too. Also in .45 Super. By the numbers, it's not a good idea. I doubt you'll blow up the gun, but you will surely beat it to death in a short time.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
I've put a 16lb Wolff Spring in my P90 so that I could shoot .45 Super. From Texas Ammo I got some of the last of their 185 grain .45 Super and 200 grain Super Express -- both advertised as 1300 feet per second. I must say they were a handful -- not for extended range practice. But they did chono near or above what Texas Ammo advertised. Ten rounds of 185 grain averaged 1321 fps with a range from 1304 to 1346 fps. Ten rounds of 200 grain averaged 1271 fps with a range of 1258 to 1286 fps. I'm happy with that power level.
BUT
I'm concerned about just how many rounds would be too many for my P90DC. I can't afford to shoot much of the .45 Super anyway, but I got it so that my P90 could suffice for what I'd prefer a 10mm to do -- as self defense against black bear and mountain lion in the mountains hereabouts. Yes, I know I really need a .44 magnum for that job -- but I'd rather not carry both my P90 and my S&W 629.

[This message has been edited by Solitar (edited 06-03-2007).]</B>

I'll give a few ideas of where to look to see if you have already started to show deterioration from the .45 Super. First, after making sure the gun is empty, field strip and clean it thoroughly and wipe it down. Do not lube it, lube may mask small indicators.

1. Look at the slide stop surface of the frame. It is located at the front of the front rails. This is also a normal contact surface so you will see evidence of contact. What you are looking for is excessive peening on that surface as well as at the bottom of the guide rod pocket between the rails.

2. Look at the angled flats on the top of the rear frame rails. This is also a normal contact area. Again, you will be looking for excessive peening on the inside edge on both rails. That is, the edges starting to get rolled over.

3. Look at the frame immediately ahead of the magazine to see if there are any indications of the barrel lugs contacting the frame during unlock. This is not a contact surface and should be free of any marks.

4. Look at the bottom of the hammer notch in the frame for any signs of contact with the hammer during the pistol's cycle. There should be no indication of contact.

5. Look at the trigger pocket where the trigger sits and is held in place by the slide stop. At the rear of the trigger are two bosses against which the trigger rests. Look for excessive peening in this area, It is a normal contact area so there will be some wear indication.

6. On the slide, look at the barrel lock-up flat at the top front of the ejection port. This is also a normal contact area but should not indicate excessive battering.

Any of these conditions indicate that you have exceeded the design criteria by using the .45 Super loads. If you are showing any of them, or even if you are not, do NOT shoot anymore .45 Super through the gun. What I have indicated above is indicative of excessive loads or an excessive amount of rounds through the pistol. As I stated in an earlier post, I doubt you will blow the gun up, but you will considerably shorten its life.

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Coffee Pot

"He who knows others is wise, He who knows himself is enlightened"

 

[COFFEE POT]

chacabra23 - Congratulations on your impending Degree. Mechanical Engineering is a very rewarding profession. Ethics is a very important part of it though. Never compromise a design for the sake of cost and learn to keep your mouth shut regarding new projects and proprietary information and you will be able to sleep well at night.

As for belonging to various professional groups, they are for show. A true Engineer is born, not made and does not seek glory in his work. It is his life and is all consuming. I don't belong to any of them. The only organization to which I belong is Mensa and that was a personal goal, not professional.

You sound enthusiastic about your future, I wish you well.

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Coffee Pot

"He who knows others is wise, He who knows himself is enlightened"

 

[chakabra23]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face=" Verdana">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by COFFEE POT:
<B>chacabra23 - Congratulations on your impending Degree. Mechanical Engineering is a very rewarding profession. Ethics is a very important part of it though. Never compromise a design for the sake of cost and learn to keep your mouth shut regarding new projects and proprietary information and you will be able to sleep well at night.

As for belonging to various professional groups, they are for show. A true Engineer is born, not made and does not seek glory in his work. It is his life and is all consuming. I don't belong to any of them. The only organization to which I belong is Mensa and that was a personal goal, not professional.

You sound enthusiastic about your future, I wish you well.

</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Thanks very much for the kind words! Yeah, I'm happy that step one is finally done. Grad school in the Fall; I got shot down by Boeing because I didn't have the undergrad GPA (<3.0) even if I showed the Boeing rep that I was a capable engineer. He did recommend getting a MS, which would overlook my "younger" days.

Again, thanks for the kind words and yeah, I look forward to completing the MS program and then working hard and becoming successful. I asked about the professional societies because I was thinking about the PE licensure; I only have the FE/EIT so far. Anyway, Finals are calling. hehe

 

[I_Like_Pie]

Thanks coffee pot for the stories and info....very interesting to read.

 

[P90]

I enjoy reading about the P90, since its my favorite Auto. Thanks for the Info, Coffeepot.

 

[November]

P90 & I_Like_Pie, I think you're about 4 years late thanking our friend COFFEE POT. This thread was from '07. I haven't seen COFFEE POT around for a long while. That's our loss as he is a great resource on all things Ruger. His last posts were from September '09. Anybody know where he went?

 

[P90]

I still communicate with him. After retirement, and Health Problems, I don't think he wants the aggravation one has to put up with when posting on Gun Boards. Can't say as I blame him.

 

[Double Maduro]

P90,

Next time you talk to him tell him we said "HI".

Thanks,
DM

 

[November]

I still communicate with him. After retirement, and Health Problems, I don't think he wants the aggravation one has to put up with when posting on Gun Boards. Can't say as I blame him.

I don't blame him either. Please tell him he is missed.

 

[208packinheat]

Wow, I learned so much from this read, not only about Ruger P Pistols, but human nature. Coffee Pot, here is to you not only for your knowledge but your a gentleman who handled a rough discussion with class. God Bless you where ever you are.