Ruger MKIII Stuck

[rhtwist]

Hello to all,
New member, suggested to your site. I have created a brand new Ruger MkIII problem. First disassembly and cleaning. Went well. Reassembly was a nightmare. There was force used. I managed to get it reassembled. But I messed up.
The bolt will not retract more than approx. 3/4". The locking lever will unlock and come out a 3/4" and stop. It will close easily and go back to the previously described state, easily. Force will cause the locking lever to open more, well maybe extreme force.
I can't get it open and I can't use it. Thanks for any advice on the resolution of my problem!
rhtwist

 

[Bullseye57]

What you're experiencing is a common reassembly problem. The hammer strut has slipped off of the mainspring cap while closing the mainspring housing. When the bolt was retracted the hammer was cocked without mainspring tension and is now stuck in a partially cocked condition. When you go to open up the MS Housing the top of the housing is striking the back of the partially cocked hammer and will not swing open because of this obstruction. The solution is to get the hammer to move forward by applying a forward force strong enough to move the hammer forward. There are two ways to accomplish this task.

First, insert an empty magazine into the frame. Next tilt the barrel muzzle towards the floor. Pull the trigger rearward and hold it in the rear most position. Take a mallet or a block of wood and rap the back of the bolt firmly while maintaining the trigger pull and the muzzle tilted toward the floor. Don't be shy about striking the rear of the bolt, you must apply enough force to move the hammer fully forward to open the housing. Do not touch or retract the bolt, and open up the latch and try swinging open the MS Housing. If it opens you've gotten back to a place where you can field strip the pistol, if not then you must take a more aggressive step.

Place a block of wood on the floor. Insert an empty magazine into your Mark III frame. Next tilt the barrel muzzle towards the floor. Pull the trigger rearward and hold it in the rear most position. Take the muzzle of the pistol and strike it hard downward onto the block of wood, while maintaining the trigger pulled and the muzzle tilted toward the floor. Again don't be shy and strike the muzzle down very hard onto the block of wood. You may have to do this motion a few times to unlock the hammer from the partially cocked position. Without retracting the bolt open up the latch and swing the housing open. Once open you can field strip the pistol or reassemble carefully to keep the hammer strut on the MS Housing cap the whole way closed. If you can cycle the bolt and drop the hammer via the trigger you've reassembled the pistol correctly.

These steps are available on this page http://www.guntalk-online.com/TroubleshootingPage.htm , see symptom number 1.

R,
Bullseye

 

[Kevin]

Great info there. I don't know how much firearms experience you have, rhtwist, but I would suggest reading Bullseye' s post several times first. Also, don't take the gun apart anymore than absolutely necessary, like every 10k rounds for cleaning. It just isn't necessary every time to clean it.

Yes I have made the same mistake as you the first couple times. Working on the kitchen floor for two hours to get the Mark II together. I bought another Mark II recently and doubt I'll ever take it apart.

Good luck,
Kevin

 

[rhtwist]

What you're experiencing is a common reassembly problem. The hammer strut has slipped off of the mainspring cap while closing the mainspring housing. When the bolt was retracted the hammer was cocked without mainspring tension and is now stuck in a partially cocked condition. When you go to open up the MS Housing the top of the housing is striking the back of the partially cocked hammer and will not swing open because of this obstruction. The solution is to get the hammer to move forward by applying a forward force strong enough to move the hammer forward. There are two ways to accomplish this task.

First, insert an empty magazine into the frame. Next tilt the barrel muzzle towards the floor. Pull the trigger rearward and hold it in the rear most position. Take a mallet or a block of wood and rap the back of the bolt firmly while maintaining the trigger pull and the muzzle tilted toward the floor. Don't be shy about striking the rear of the bolt, you must apply enough force to move the hammer fully forward to open the housing. Do not touch or retract the bolt, and open up the latch and try swinging open the MS Housing. If it opens you've gotten back to a place where you can field strip the pistol, if not then you must take a more aggressive step.

Place a block of wood on the floor. Insert an empty magazine into your Mark III frame. Next tilt the barrel muzzle towards the floor. Pull the trigger rearward and hold it in the rear most position. Take the muzzle of the pistol and strike it hard downward onto the block of wood, while maintaining the trigger pulled and the muzzle tilted toward the floor. Again don't be shy and strike the muzzle down very hard onto the block of wood. You may have to do this motion a few times to unlock the hammer from the partially cocked position. Without retracting the bolt open up the latch and swing the housing open. Once open you can field strip the pistol or reassemble carefully to keep the hammer strut on the MS Housing cap the whole way closed. If you can cycle the bolt and drop the hammer via the trigger you've reassembled the pistol correctly.

These steps are available on this page http://www.guntalk-online.com/TroubleshootingPage.htm , see symptom number 1.

R,
Bullseye

Hello Bullseye57,
Thank you for your comprehensive response as well as for your time. From another website, I got the same diagnoses with a slightly different solution. There I repeatedly bashed the muzzle on a phonebook on the floor. This did not succeed. The more aggressive method may work. I noticed several minor things that might provide you with more information.
First, the locking lever is much looser in the frame housing, but will still not come out.
Secondly, I could not depress the trigger fully. This was with the magazine in and several attempts. I was pulling the trigger and happened to retract the bolt as far as it goes... an the trigger fully depressed. This is repeatable with or without the magazine installed. Once the trigger is let off, it again can not be fully depressed without again retracting the bolt.
Does this effect the previous diagnoses?
Thanks much!
rhtwist

 

[rhtwist]

Great info there. I don't know how much firearms experience you have, rhtwist, but I would suggest reading Bullseye' s post several times first. Also, don't take the gun apart anymore than absolutely necessary, like every 10k rounds for cleaning. It just isn't necessary every time to clean it.

Yes I have made the same mistake as you the first couple times. Working on the kitchen floor for two hours to get the Mark II together. I bought another Mark II recently and doubt I'll ever take it apart.

Good luck,
Kevin

Hello Kevin,
That info is good to know. If I manage to fix this I may never clean it again {)!
Finger's crossed!
rhtwist

 

[Bullseye57]

Hello Bullseye57,
Thank you for your comprehensive response as well as for your time. From another website, I got the same diagnoses with a slightly different solution. There I repeatedly bashed the muzzle on a phonebook on the floor. This did not succeed. The more aggressive method may work. I noticed several minor things that might provide you with more information.
First, the locking lever is much looser in the frame housing, but will still not come out.
Secondly, I could not depress the trigger fully. This was with the magazine in and several attempts. I was pulling the trigger and happened to retract the bolt as far as it goes... an the trigger fully depressed. This is repeatable with or without the magazine installed. Once the trigger is let off, it again can not be fully depressed without again retracting the bolt.
Does this effect the previous diagnoses?
Thanks much!
rhtwist

What model of Mark III pistol is this problem happening on?

When the pistol was disassembled, what maintenance was performed?

Were there any parts replaced with aftermarket ones?

Have you tried the muzzle striking method with the mainspring latch opened? Just the latch unhooked not also attempting to open the housing, just letting it sit loose in the frame.

R,
Bullseye

 

[rhtwist]

Hello Bullseye57,
Thank you for your comprehensive response as well as for your time. From another website, I got the same diagnoses with a slightly different solution. There I repeatedly bashed the muzzle on a phonebook on the floor. This did not succeed. The more aggressive method may work. I noticed several minor things that might provide you with more information.
First, the locking lever is much looser in the frame housing, but will still not come out.
Secondly, I could not depress the trigger fully. This was with the magazine in and several attempts. I was pulling the trigger and happened to retract the bolt as far as it goes... an the trigger fully depressed. This is repeatable with or without the magazine installed. Once the trigger is let off, it again can not be fully depressed without again retracting the bolt.
Does this effect the previous diagnoses?
Thanks much!
rhtwist

What model of Mark III pistol is this problem happening on?

When the pistol was disassembled, what maintenance was performed?

Were there any parts replaced with aftermarket ones?

Have you tried the muzzle striking method with the mainspring latch opened? Just the latch unhooked not also attempting to open the housing, just letting it sit loose in the frame.

R,
Bullseye

Howdy Bullseye,
It is the MKIII Target. I did use force during the reassembly. Most likely too much and may have bent the hammer strut. When disassembled it was cleaned, it is stock, shot it the first time Thursday. Yes the the latch was loose. Ruger customer service had me do the phonebook on the floor. They said I should send it in for repair....
Haven't taken a 2X4 to it yet though!!
Thanks for your time
rhtwist

 

[Bullseye57]

What I was concerned about with your pistol is the model, because a 22/45 version has slightly different remedies than a metal framed Mark III. As I read your second description of the problem some extra questions came to mind. As far as the trigger, when you pull back the bolt and squeeze you've activated the disconnector and the trigger is not connected to the sear. So when you describe letting up on the trigger and then cannot subsequently pull the trigger fully rearward this tells me your sear is being blocked from movement, most likely by the magazine disconnector safety hook. If you have bent the hammer strut, then likely it is interfering with the movement of the magazine disconnector safety hook as you've mentioned that the trigger doesn't fully operate with an empty mag inserted or not. Does the thumb safety button move between 'safe' and 'fire' positions?

If the sear is being blocked from moving even the block of wood method may not be successful as the hammer has to be free to move forward under the force of inertia and if the sear is being held under the hammer this is not possible.

You may also want to take a look at this article I wrote many years ago on manually releasing a stuck sear. http://www.guntalk-online.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=3115#3115 The pictures are of a Mark III pistol and the angled piece of metal in the first picture, right below the yellow arrow, is actually the magazine safety disconnector hook which is blocking the sear from moving.

R,
Bullseye

 

[rhtwist]

What I was concerned about with your pistol is the model, because a 22/45 version has slightly different remedies than a metal framed Mark III. As I read your second description of the problem some extra questions came to mind. As far as the trigger, when you pull back the bolt and squeeze you've activated the disconnector and the trigger is not connected to the sear. So when you describe letting up on the trigger and then cannot subsequently pull the trigger fully rearward this tells me your sear is being blocked from movement, most likely by the magazine disconnector safety hook. If you have bent the hammer strut, then likely it is interfering with the movement of the magazine disconnector safety hook as you've mentioned that the trigger doesn't fully operate with an empty mag inserted or not. Does the thumb safety button move between 'safe' and 'fire' positions?

Yes the thumb safety moves easily. And mine is the full metal MKIII. So I am following your description and to clarify for myself, if I pull the bolt back the trigger will fully depress with or without the magazine in the gun. I hope that matches what you are saying as I am trying to understand my mistake........

If the sear is being blocked from moving even the block of wood method may not be successful as the hammer has to be free to move forward under the force of inertia and if the sear is being held under the hammer this is not possible.

You may also want to take a look at this article I wrote many years ago on manually releasing a stuck sear. http://www.guntalk-online.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=3115#3115 The pictures are of a Mark III pistol and the angled piece of metal in the first picture, right below the yellow arrow, is actually the magazine safety disconnector hook which is blocking the sear from moving.

R,
Bullseye

It sure does sound like you know your stuff. I will certainly look into your article, thank you!! I could use more understanding about it. A self inflicted aggravating situation.

Regards,
rhtwist

 

[Bullseye57]

The thumb safety lever moving easily between S-F tells me that the sear is being held underneath the hammer hook. This also goes with my thought that your magazine safety hook has captured the sear face and is not allowing it to move thereby causing the trigger not to travel fully to the rear. In that circumstance the trigger feels as if it is hitting something when you pull it rearward. If you move the bolt rearward and pull the trigger then the trigger moves easily rearward but feels as if it is not connected to anything, because it isn't. There is an angled slot on the underside of the bolt that causes the disconnector lever to disengage the trigger when the bolt is open or partially open.

When you insert an empty magazine into the frame, does it feel like the mag is binding when it goes that last little bit upward to lock into the frame?

R,
Bullseye

 

[rhtwist]

The thumb safety lever moving easily between S-F tells me that the sear is being held underneath the hammer hook. This also goes with my thought that your magazine safety hook has captured the sear face and is not allowing it to move thereby causing the trigger not to travel fully to the rear. In that circumstance the trigger feels as if it is hitting something when you pull it rearward. If you move the bolt rearward and pull the trigger then the trigger moves easily rearward but feels as if it is not connected to anything, because it isn't. There is an angled slot on the underside of the bolt that causes the disconnector lever to disengage the trigger when the bolt is open or partially open.

When you insert an empty magazine into the frame, does it feel like the mag is binding when it goes that last little bit upward to lock into the frame?

R,
Bullseye

Howdy and yes it does Sir. Any ideas on how to resolve the issue or do I go out and get a pick?
Thank you

Best,
rhtwist

 

[Bullseye57]

Unfortunately, my answer may not be what you really want to hear. There's a very real possibility that your magazine disconnector safety hook's movement is being impeded by something bent in the rear frame of the pistol, possibly the hammer strut. This lack of movement means it is not likely you will be able to move the safety hook and free the sear face in order to do manual release technique on the sear with a scribe. There are other ways to free up the pistol for disassembly, but this means a major detailed parts disassembly, which you may not have the skills to accomplish with this model. Once the pistol is all apart, you still are likely going to need replacement parts for any of the damaged ones. It may be best in this case to take Ruger up on their offer and send your pistol in for them to repair for you. Trying to learn the internal configuration and interactions on a pistol with damaged parts is a tough challenge for a new owner. I do have a maintenance page with some good descriptions http://www.guntalk-online.com/detailstrip.htm and the pictures will help you better understand the pistol's internal components. The disassembly and repair is not overly difficult for an experienced Ruger MarkIII .22 Automatic owner but a very big challenge for one with limited to no maintenance experience. Unless you have someone who could give you some in person "over-the-shoulder" coaching it is probably best to send it in for repairs.

R,
Bullseye

 

[rhtwist]

Unfortunately, my answer may not be what you really want to hear. There's a very real possibility that your magazine disconnector safety hook's movement is being impeded by something bent in the rear frame of the pistol, possibly the hammer strut. This lack of movement means it is not likely you will be able to move the safety hook and free the sear face in order to do manual release technique on the sear with a scribe. There are other ways to free up the pistol for disassembly, but this means a major detailed parts disassembly, which you may not have the skills to accomplish with this model. Once the pistol is all apart, you still are likely going to need replacement parts for any of the damaged ones. It may be best in this case to take Ruger up on their offer and send your pistol in for them to repair for you. Trying to learn the internal configuration and interactions on a pistol with damaged parts is a tough challenge for a new owner. I do have a maintenance page with some good descriptions http://www.guntalk-online.com/detailstrip.htm and the pictures will help you better understand the pistol's internal components. The disassembly and repair is not overly difficult for an experienced Ruger MarkIII .22 Automatic owner but a very big challenge for one with limited to no maintenance experience. Unless you have someone who could give you some in person "over-the-shoulder" coaching it is probably best to send it in for repairs.

R,
Bullseye

Bullseye,
Don't know where my update prior to your quoted post got to, but I pulled the hammer and sear pivot pins and that freed the pistol up enough to get the lever out and pull the pin and disassemble the pistol. Pulled the trigger pin also and it's accompanying parts. Nothing appears bent or scratched in general. Maybe some specific things I should look for might be suggested.
I had previously seen videos on polishing parts for better function and smoother trigger. Now that it is apart, I think any mods or fine tuning might be done.
Going to be a bear getting it all back together. Thanks for the site, that looks great. Going to be a big help. Finger's crossed.
Any modifications to improve trigger pull and smoothness? Also as a side note, the magazines sometimes get hung up on insertion. Never noted this on my old MKII. Have to jiggle the mag and then it will go in all the way. Thanks for any ideas and your help!!

Best,
rhtwist

 

[Bullseye57]

Pulling the sear and hammer pivot pins would have been the suggestions I'd have made to someone who had experience with the Ruger model pistol. Apparently you do have some experience with Ruger Marks, somehow I misread that through your prior postings. I didn't want to get someone inexperienced in over their head, which is why I didn't suggest that particular method when I mentioned that there were other remedies for disassembly. Good for you. That was another reason why I asked about your model of pistol and if it was a 22/45 version. Popping the pivot pins causes the polymer framed pistols to majorly deform the sear spring but that isn't the case with the metal framed Ruger Mark pistols.

If you understand how the internals work on a Mark II, then the Mark III is just a short step beyond, with the magazine disconnector safety hook and the two-part hammer bushing being the major differences. The website I provided has detailed reassembly and disassembly instructions to assist you. One of the trickiest parts is when you swing the hammer back into the frame and getting the long leg of the mag disconnector return spring directed into the rear part of the frame in the mainspring well behind the sear.

I'm glad to hear that nothing's bent but I'm curious as to why that mag disconnector hook would not move when the magazine body was inserted, something was hanging it up. You shouldn't have had issues with inserting the mag, it should've locked into the frame pretty easily. Releasing it typically requires one to pull the magazine body out of the frame.

I don't recommend polishing any parts. If you want upgrades by aftermarket target replacement parts. A good one would be a Mark II style hammer bushing to eliminate the magazine disconnector safety parts which will free up the magazines and also simplify the assembly stages. A VQ target sear will safely lighten up your trigger pull. A VQ target trigger would add in some adjustments for overtravel and pretravel and make operation more user friendly.

Hope this helps.

R,
Bullseye

 

[rhtwist]

Pulling the sear and hammer pivot pins would have been the suggestions I'd have made to someone who had experience with the Ruger model pistol. Apparently you do have some experience with Ruger Marks, somehow I misread that through your prior postings. I didn't want to get someone inexperienced in over their head, which is why I didn't suggest that particular method when I mentioned that there were other remedies for disassembly. Good for you. That was another reason why I asked about your model of pistol and if it was a 22/45 version. Popping the pivot pins causes the polymer framed pistols to majorly deform the sear spring but that isn't the case with the metal framed Ruger Mark pistols.

If you understand how the internals work on a Mark II, then the Mark III is just a short step beyond, with the magazine disconnector safety hook and the two-part hammer bushing being the major differences. The website I provided has detailed reassembly and disassembly instructions to assist you. One of the trickiest parts is when you swing the hammer back into the frame and getting the long leg of the mag disconnector return spring directed into the rear part of the frame in the mainspring well behind the sear.

I'm glad to hear that nothing's bent but I'm curious as to why that mag disconnector hook would not move when the magazine body was inserted, something was hanging it up. You shouldn't have had issues with inserting the mag, it should've locked into the frame pretty easily. Releasing it typically requires one to pull the magazine body out of the frame.

I don't recommend polishing any parts. If you want upgrades by aftermarket target replacement parts. A good one would be a Mark II style hammer bushing to eliminate the magazine disconnector safety parts which will free up the magazines and also simplify the assembly stages. A VQ target sear will safely lighten up your trigger pull. A VQ target trigger would add in some adjustments for overtravel and pretravel and make operation more user friendly.

Hope this helps.

R,
Bullseye

You have been a great help! First, I never pulled the pins on my MKII.... I purchased about 30 years ago. So familiar may be a stretch. But I appreciate the caution you have suggested, better safe than sorry. Now I have to use that in practice -))!
Muscle memory didn't help in the reassembly that caused the issue. I had been looking at videos so that helped and was desperate, since your and Ruger's help didn't work in this occasion.
Understand is also is a stretch of a definition, but I a tinkerer. For now I think I will just see if I can get it back together. I am really glad I didn't break anything but the old adage if at first you don't succeed, get a bigger hammer isn't optimum for the procedure of reassembly.
A question I have is that I don't recall being able to put the barrel/receiver on the frame in any but the correct angle. On this MKIII it seems to be able to rotate the receiver slightly and get it started. So you have to watch for that. Am I just forgetting or is this really a difference in models?
Well again finger's crossed, maybe I can get it assemble again by tomorrow
Thanks for your help! I will probably be back before this is over.

rhtwist

 

[Bullseye57]

No it is not model specific, some receivers have a little play on the frames. The easiest way to align them is to take the mainspring housing and place the bolt stop down into the receiver from the top. If you get the bolt stop to completely touch the top of the receiver both the frame and the receiver are both aligned. Like this:

The big key is placing the hammer strut onto the mainspring cap, this is the part that may have given you trouble the last time. After you get all the internals in place, follow the reassembly steps on this page very carefully and you should get it all together properly. http://www.guntalk-online.com/fsprocedures.htm

Just remember not to force anything, you may have dodged a bullet the last time, no reason to temp fate twice. Steps 6-8 are the ones you need to pay particular attention to during the reassembly. I hope all goes well for you.

R,
Bullseye

 

[rhtwist]

No it is not model specific, some receivers have a little play on the frames. The easiest way to align them is to take the mainspring housing and place the bolt stop down into the receiver from the top. If you get the bolt stop to completely touch the top of the receiver both the frame and the receiver are both aligned. Like this:

The big key is placing the hammer strut onto the mainspring cap, this is the part that may have given you trouble the last time. After you get all the internals in place, follow the reassembly steps on this page very carefully and you should get it all together properly. http://www.guntalk-online.com/fsprocedures.htm

Just remember not to force anything, you may have dodged a bullet the last time, no reason to temp fate twice. Steps 6-8 are the ones you need to pay particular attention to during the reassembly. I hope all goes well for you.

R,
Bullseye

Well hello kind Sir,
I did not dodge the bullet!!! After several attempts, the trigger and parts are in. Went to figure out how to put the sear and spring in on it's pin. Not knowing or thinking of the length of the pin, I pushed it through the sear pivot hole and another piece dropped out. Broke the sear spring pin about 3/4rds of it's length... Will get that on order and maybe a target sear.
Getting an in depth education on the MKIII ruger assembly!!
If and when I get the internals back in, more caution and care will be taken on the next go around.
Thanks for your time and support and information and advice. I've needed them!
Replacing the mag disconnect with the plug/spacer will make it easier to assemble and allow the mags to drop out without help, yes?

Regards,
rhtwist

 

[Bullseye57]

Yes, the replacement bushing will greatly simplify the reassembly process. The pistol will go back together just like your Mark II does now with the aftermarket replacement bushing installed. Then you will have the best of both models, simplified reassembly and a 1911 style push-button magazine release with drop-free magazines.

R,
Bullseye

 

[rhtwist]

Yes, the replacement bushing will greatly simplify the reassembly process. The pistol will go back together just like your Mark II does now with the aftermarket replacement bushing installed. Then you will have the best of both models, simplified reassembly and a 1911 style push-button magazine release with drop-free magazines.

R,
Bullseye

Great, that will be nice. Take care!

rhtwist

 

[langenc]

What I was concerned about with your pistol is the model, because a 22/45 version has slightly different remedies than a metal framed Mark III. As I read your second description of the problem some extra questions came to mind. As far as the trigger, when you pull back the bolt and squeeze you've activated the disconnector and the trigger is not connected to the sear. So when you describe letting up on the trigger and then cannot subsequently pull the trigger fully rearward this tells me your sear is being blocked from movement, most likely by the magazine disconnector safety hook. If you have bent the hammer strut, then likely it is interfering with the movement of the magazine disconnector safety hook as you've mentioned that the trigger doesn't fully operate with an empty mag inserted or not. Does the thumb safety button move between 'safe' and 'fire' positions?

Yes the thumb safety moves easily. And mine is the full metal MKIII. So I am following your description and to clarify for myself, if I pull the bolt back the trigger will fully depress with or without the magazine in the gun. I hope that matches what you are saying as I am trying to understand my mistake........

If the sear is being blocked from moving even the block of wood method may not be successful as the hammer has to be free to move forward under the force of inertia and if the sear is being held under the hammer this is not possible.

You may also want to take a look at this article I wrote many years ago on manually releasing a stuck sear. http://www.guntalk-online.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=3115#3115 The pictures are of a Mark III pistol and the angled piece of metal in the first picture, right below the yellow arrow, is actually the magazine safety disconnector hook which is blocking the sear from moving.

R,
Bullseye

It sure does sound like you know your stuff. I will certainly look into your article, thank you!! I could use more understanding about it. A self inflicted aggravating situation.

Regards,
rhtwist

Bullseye knows more than most Ruger employees!!