Ruger MKII / Volquartsen Accuracy Upgrade = Function Problem

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B 2/75

Bearcat
Joined
Sep 11, 2013
Messages
4
Hi folks. I'm hoping that there is a simple answer that I've simply been unable to find, despite some pretty diligent searching.

I've got a 1982 Ruger MKII that my brother got me for Christmas just after my ETS from active duty, and over the years its already bad trigger had gotten more and more sloppy. Fast forward about five years to when I was a young LT back on active duty, and I decided to clean it up, and wound up taking one stroke too many off the hammer with a file. The result was a gun that would fire once, and more often than not a 2nd, 3rd, sometimes even emptying the mag. It was unsafe, there was no internet, gunshows and shops weren't carrying spare hammers, so it went into an ammo can for 20+ years.

A couple weeks ago I got a Volquartsen MKII accuracy kit that's comprised of a trigger, bolt release, sear, hammer, hammer bushing and related springs. Nice gear.

Takedown and installation was no problem. Installation of the new parts was not a problem. but getting the damn thing to operate correctly has been "100% failure" to date.

Best I can judge, the problem centers on the Disconnector, which is original equipment to the gun... it wasn't a part of the kit.

With the barrel and bolt off, and the receiver completely assembled, all function checks are perfect. By lifting slightly on the hammer to provide positive sear engagement, pulling the trigger causes the disconnector to slide forward, tripping the sear and giving a really smooth and nice break, allowing the hammer to fall. Sweet.

But, (and this is the part I don't understand and haven't been able to reference anywhere) if the top of the disconnector is pushed down slightly, there is a click, and the sear is no longer engaged; pull the trigger and the disconnector moves, but it doesn't cause the sear to rotate forward, so there's no joy on the hammer interaction at all. To correct the condition if the rear of the hammer is depressed very slightly, the disconnector is popped upward a tiny bit, and again engages the sear.

This is obviously by design, as the hole in the disconnector which engages the hammer bushing would be round if Ruger didn't WANT the disconnector moving north and south. But it's irritating that I can't reference this anywhere.

On reassembly, even when taking ridiculous caution that the hammer is fully forward when inserting the mainspring housing, and that the hammer spur isn't captured behind the sear spring retaining pin. I'm getting positive pressure from the spur being placed under mainspring pressure on the last 1/4" of closing the mainspring housing into the receiver before flipping up the catch. But the problem is that no matter how I do this, when the piece is cocked, that disconnector is apparently being depressed, disengaging sear action, and not allowing it to fire.

Disassembly at this point is a Rosie O'Donnell... you've gotta beat the muzzle on a safe hard surface to get the hammer to go forward, allowing the mainspring housing to be taken out.

So, who's a guru? I've not yet been able to crack this issue, and I'm nearing the limits of my patience.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uusP-vyfNlQ&feature=share&list=UUOBn3JVKcMEHO_xBqbgyhmg... hope this short video of the problem helps.
 

revhigh

Hawkeye
Joined
Aug 31, 2005
Messages
5,590
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Unfortunately ... This is yet another example of trying to make a perfectly bulletproof gun 'better' ... and ending up having it not work at all. Why does this happen so frequently ? Because the vast majority of gun owners don't know what the hell they're doing when it comes to the mechanics of fire control systems.

Why didn't you just send it to Ruger and have them return it to factory specs, which they probably would have done for free if you hadn't filed and ground it to dangerous machine pistol status. Who knows ... They STILL may fix it ... I wouldn't doubt it.

The triggers in the MK's are generally OK, maybe not great, but OK ... Certainly useable anyway.

Return it to stock and the gun will be fine.

REV
 

B 2/75

Bearcat
Joined
Sep 11, 2013
Messages
4
revhigh, I suppose I must look like the village idiot to you... such is apparent by your rather caustic tone.

Aren't you a moderator?

Look - I laid out my problem in a clear, concise manner, with no real evidence that I'm one of "vast majority of gun owners don't know what the hell they're doing." I agree 100% that when I was 25 I didn't yet have a clue, and botched my attempt at improving the 4' of gravelly creep the trigger had when new, and the gun went into a can for more than two decades. I've admitted as much.

But because I chose to go with a Volquartsen accuracy kit, rather than approaching Ruger for a fix, you choose to talk down to me like that? In your apparent lofty opinion (12222 posts CAN'T be argued with, right) the fire control should be returned to stock, and that very fine Volquartsen set should go back to the vendor?

I'm not trying to be flippant here, but I really don't understand your intent. Is it to stomp on the new guy without even attempting to help resolve my problem, or is it to stomp on Volquartsen, a fairly respectable name in Ruger aftermarket gear?
 

hittman

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Guessing I must have thicker skin than most as I didn't detect an ounce of "talking down to" ~ but ~ that's just me.

Your status here as a newby and Rev's (or mine) as Moderator means nothing and carries no weight either positive or negative towards this discussion.

I've only been active here since 2008 or so but can't count the dozens; maybe hundreds of times a perfectly functional gun was rendered useless because someone tried to fix it. The world is full or table-top gunsmiths .... some good, some not.

I would have sent it to Ruger or a gunsmith I trust because I've seen too many horror stories posted here. You didn't have that experience being a new member.

If it were mine today, I'd send it to Ruger or a local gunsmith that has good references. Ruger would be my first choice.

Whatever you decide, please let us know how it turns out. And, we love pictures here too!
 

revhigh

Hawkeye
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There was no intent to talk down to you. IMO, most of the VQ stuff is excellent, although, as you gathered, I'm no fan of aftermarket fire control modifications done by people who don't know what they're doing. I have to stand on the range next to people who have done this stuff, and have seen guns go full auto after kitchen table hack jobs, and have seen accidental discharges after home done awesome 'trigger jobs'.

However, given the fact that you're not 25, I find it hard to believe that with a problem as obscure as yours (I watched your video), that you would really believe that somebody could diagnose your problem after watching the video or reading your description over the Internet. I would think the first place you should contact is VQ, and have them view your video.

Granted ... You know the names of all the parts and can explain what they're doing, but clearly you don't know how they interact TOGETHER, or you wouldn't be having the issues that you're having without being able to solve the problem.

There have been a rash of these types of posts here recently .. Where people with no or little experience are messing around with the fire control groups of their guns, and then wonder why they don't work anymore.

If you're offended because I stated the obvious ... Then you're just gonna have to get over it. No insult was intended.

Again ... Contact VQ ... It's their and your problem now. Or put the gun back to stock, and have a safe, reliable gun that you can rely on.

REV
 

B 2/75

Bearcat
Joined
Sep 11, 2013
Messages
4
No offense taken at all... I simply bristled a bit at being told I should send it back to Ruger, when I've clearly invested a C note in this route already.

Given that I don't know all of the intricacies of the parts interplay with each other, what do YOU think is going on here?

Nearly all the guts of the piece have been replaced but for the disconnect and the pins, which are still OEM parts. Action between the disconnector and sear are positive and accurate with no trigger installed. Put the trigger and other stuff that's on that pin, and the mischief starts.

Maybe someone with a MKII can pop off their barrel and see if they get a similar "disconnection" when the top of the disconnector is depressed. On my piece the reconnection only happens if the head of the cocked hammer is depressed slightly.

Calling VQ is certainly on my list of remedial action... I was hoping to first resolve the issue here, though.

- John
 

revhigh

Hawkeye
Joined
Aug 31, 2005
Messages
5,590
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B 2/75 said:
No offense taken at all... I simply bristled a bit at being told I should send it back to Ruger, when I've clearly invested a C note in this route already.

Given that I don't know all of the intricacies of the parts interplay with each other, what do YOU think is going on here?


To be honest, John ... I have absolutely no idea ... and I'm not even going to speculate. I'm not a gunsmith, gun designer, or fire control systems expert. But Ruger IS all three of those things, which is why I suggested sending it to those who designed it, built it, stand behind it, and understand it.

It's very easy to be tempted into all these mods that are available to us. I wouldn't doubt there are gunsmiths that specialize in the MK's that can fix you right up for a few hundred more in shipping and smithing fees.

I know you're a newbie here, so you don't know, but there have been numerous ongoing threads debating the addition of aftermarket fire control items.

My stance is that by the time an owner buys the parts, and possibly invests in gun smithing and/or shipping to install the parts safely and correctly ... That the owner could have bought a far better gun out of the box, and retained their warranty, as well as not had any liability issues stemming from a CCW shoot or range accident that involved self installed aftermarket fire control parts.

Good luck in your quest to resolve these issues, and welcome to the forum !

REV
 

revhigh

Hawkeye
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Aug 31, 2005
Messages
5,590
Location
PA
hangnoose said:
I recently bought a VQ tricked out mk2 gov't model. BUT the work was done by them. mine shoots fine but disassembled fine ONCE, now I can't get the bolt pin out to disassemble again. with 2 weak/clumsy hands and wrist braces on each, I will have to live with it and clean it carefully the wrong way, or send it back to VQ. I'm leaning towards the latter. using too much force and trying to beat it into submission isn't going to end well. you may be a great DIY'er but VQ does this kind of work day in and day out, I"D LET THEM FIX IT before you do some serious damage, sorry. I know, sending a box of parts back to the mfg/smith is worse than stopping to ask for directions but is probly the smart thing to do. anybody remember those T shaped disassembly pins that made stripping the mk's easier for a guy with bad hands? any clue where to find them? I didn't see them on VQ's web site, maybe Clark.



Thanks for your honesty, and insight. This, or something similar to this, has happened to countless owners of all types of weapons. Myself included for other products ... Like a jet ski ... I modded that thing so good it barely ran at all. :D

This is pretty much what I've been preaching about aftermarket mods and the application of the mods. Now, with guns coming out like these LC whatever's ... The dissatisfaction is even greater once the owner lives with the gun for awhile, and comes to realize how bad the triggers really are on these things. Of course they look for aftermarket 'solutions' and 'miracle cures'. These two things, like unicorns, simply don't exist. The only answer is buying a gun that has an acceptable trigger to you out of the box. Will it cost more ? You're damn right it will ... That's WHY it costs more. We're not just talking about Ruger ... ANY entry level cheap plastic gun is going to have these issues. Ever feel the SA trigger on a well broken in Sig or CZ, and experience their accuracy ? That's WHY they cost >$200 more than an SR whatever. To say that these guns are overpriced and not worth it is just admitting you either can't afford them, or aren't a good enough shooter to appreciate them.

We're talking about GUNS ...get it done right .... Or don't do it at all. The consequences of shoddy, poor, or inexperienced workmanship can be catastrophic at worst, and inconvenient and/or just plain annoying at best, as the quoted poster above indicates.

It's a damn rare part that's truly 'drop-in' ... Although the aftermarket companies wouldn't sell much of their overpriced wares if they said ....

This part is a real pain in the ass to install .... Probably will require a gunsmith to fix your screw-ups .... will void your warranty ... Will negatively affect reliability ... And oh ... By the way ... If you ARE gullible enough to buy our parts and actually get them installed so that the gun will actually shoot .... If anything bad happens .... We're legally out of it ... You're on your own .... Thanks for your purchase ! :D

That's also the main reason why I will very rarely purchase a gun that has had ANY mods done to it that the owner can't produce receipts showing that the mods were done by a licensed and experienced gunsmith. You just have no idea what kind of hack work was done by some kid at the kitchen table with a file and a Dremel tool.

And now .... Back to the OP's issue ... Sorry for the sidetrack and the responses it caused. :D

REV
 

B 2/75

Bearcat
Joined
Sep 11, 2013
Messages
4
Well, after MUCH angst and gnashing of teeth, splitting fingernails, gray hair, and lost productivity, I've finally found the likely answer:

It looks like the Volquartsen sear is actually a tad out of spec... when I reassembled the piece with all VQ parts EXCEPT for the original Ruger seer, it functions perfectly.

Granted, the engagement between seer and hammer is creepy and not at all nice, but the issue with the disconnector is gone.

So, I'm going to contact Volquartsen and talk to their customer service folks, maybe they'll send me another seer, or maybe they'll want me to send them the whole piece for a fitting by their armorers of a correct one.

Anyway, after a lot of trial and error, I've finally stumbled on the probable solution.

Thanks to all.
 

revhigh

Hawkeye
Joined
Aug 31, 2005
Messages
5,590
Location
PA
Geez ... Having a part out of spec like that doesn't sound like VQ.

The least they could do after this is install the stuff in your gun and make it perfect for free.

Glad you figgered it out.

REV
 

Pappygator

Bearcat
Joined
Jul 9, 2013
Messages
16
B 2/75 said:
No offense taken at all... I simply bristled a bit at being told I should send it back to Ruger, when I've clearly invested a C note in this route already.

Given that I don't know all of the intricacies of the parts interplay with each other, what do YOU think is going on here?

Nearly all the guts of the piece have been replaced but for the disconnect and the pins, which are still OEM parts. Action between the disconnector and sear are positive and accurate with no trigger installed. Put the trigger and other stuff that's on that pin, and the mischief starts.

Maybe someone with a MKII can pop off their barrel and see if they get a similar "disconnection" when the top of the disconnector is depressed. On my piece the reconnection only happens if the head of the cocked hammer is depressed slightly.

Calling VQ is certainly on my list of remedial action... I was hoping to first resolve the issue here, though.

- John
I've learned if you mention "modification " on the Ruger Forum you will be properly chastised. For heavens sake don't mention Eric Galloway. He is public enemy number 1.
 

jz2ruger

Bearcat
Joined
Nov 21, 2012
Messages
15
sorry for dredging up a long dormant post.
But I have question for Revhigh and hittman. what do you think about the Volquartsen grip frame installed by them on a 22/45. Is that type of mod acceptable? I have a 22/45, but mostly shoot airguns. I've seen dozens of airguns ruined or made unsafe by backyard gunsmiths. That's enough to convince me to never try to mod a firearm, but I'm wondering if I am ok with the aftermarket part maker doing the work.
 
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