This model and caliber seems to be pretty rare and hard to find. What is the appeal of 7x57? Somewhere in between 6.5x55 and .270. Probably shots the same as them.
Ruger M77 Mark I in 7x57?
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I have owned all three in M77, a Krag, and a Mauser sporter. I do not believe there is anything the 7 X 57 can do which the .270 cannot. Certainly, .270 ammo is more available. For lighter game, both are excellent. I know two old guys here take elk with the .270 Winchester. Most visitors carry some kind of .300 magnum. The 6.5 X 55 is an excellent round for Antelope and Whitetails. Similar to the .25-06 but with a longer bullet, I believe. The 6.5 has taken heavier game I read. In Scandinavia, even bears are taken with it. That has to do with that longer deep penetrating bullet. I forget the term for that characteristic. If I were to pick one of the three for all around hunting it would be the .270. Just my 25 cent opinion.
Thanks!
Paul B
Hunter
Appeal" How about excellent history for openers. Most people shun the 7x57 because for one thing SAAMI, the group that decides to what cartridge may be loaded says the 7x57 is limited to 50KPSI oe 45KC.U.P. Their reasoning is because there are too many old 1893 and 1895 Mausers still in use that are originally limited to that 45K C.U.P. level which was the pressure measuring system back when they first went into operation. Personally, I think they're wrong but they make the rules that every ammo maker and loading manual publisher have to go by..
The Ruger M77 chambered to the 7x57 is no weak sister of a firearm as it is chambered to some mighty potent cartridges including some biggies meant for African dangerous game. Looking at the big picture the first thing I need to say is the 7x57 is a reloader's cartridge. Ammo is kept loaded light because of the weaker (?) older Mauser rifles. More on that later.
The M77 is loaded with cartridges like the .270 Win (662KPSI), .300 Win. Mag. (65KPSI) and so on. That's up to 15KPSI higher than the 7x57 from the factory. Thus, to get full benefit one must reload to the level he wants. Note that Speer and Nosler manuals are showing higher velocity numbers than any factory load.
With all that said, first of all, I own three rifles chambered to the 7x57, a Winchester M70 Featherweight, Ruger #1A and a custom Mauser built to my specifications. I did own a tang safety M77 as well but a friend talked me out of it. I load for all three using 7-08 data, (OMG, he'd gonna blow himself up!) Not gonna happen. One of my pet loads run the 150 gr. Nosler Partition at 2880 FPS in 100+ degree weather here in Arizona. I do load workups during southern Arizona's summers as how weather makes pressure show up quicker. Any load safe during a 110 degree day with certainly be safe at 14 above on an elk hunt. Brass is still good after ten reloads. FWIW, than Nosler load is just about the same that I get from a .270 with 24" barre. The M70 and #1 have 22" barrel's The Mauser 2300 and it tweaks out at 2900 but I cut that one back to 2850 because bolt lift was slightly sticky.
Just my thoughts on those weaker M93 and M95 Mauser rifles. Personally. I don't think they're anywhere near as weak as people say. Does anyone really think Mauser would put out a product, a weapon of war in a sloppy manner? I don't think those actions are as weak as has been stated. I do agree that they handle escaping gas poorly and nobody wants a snootful of gas and brass particles. Factory loads are advertised at roughly 2500 for 139.140 gr. bullets which is OK for most deer hunting and the 175 gr. bullets are said to do 2400 FPS. I chronograph two lots of 175 gr. ammo; one box left over from a 7x57 I had back in the mid 1970s and the other a current lot about two years old from the LGS. I ran both on the same day using the M70 22" barrel and they weren't much faster than 170 gr. loads from a 30-30.
This is why I say the 7x57 is a handloader's cartridge. If you're a reloader, then by all means snag a 7x57 and enjoy. It's not the handicapped cartridge many would like you to believe. Also, brass can be hard to find at time. One of the big box stores like Midway sell PPU ammo. It's supposed to have good brass and I've heard it said it was decent stuff. I have a good supply of Winchester and Remington brass that is at least ten to twelve years old when they still made good brass and bought up a bunch.
Sorry if this is a bit long winded but I tried to cover most details. I even left out "Karamojo " Bell and his 1,100 elephants of which 800 were taken with the 7x57 and 173 gr. FMJ bullets at 2300 FPS. OOPS!
Paul B'
Paul B: Thanks so much for the great info! I am tempted because I saw a Ruger M77 for sale in that caliber. Also, what about the Remington Rolling Block chambered in 7x57? Mike
I would go for the Remington Rolling Block. In addition to being way cool, that long barrel ought to really add to the Mauser cartridge's flat shooting characteristic. I assume this is a long barrel Remington.
I once had a M77 made about 1975 in 7x57, regardless the bullet weight would not hold a group smaller than 4". I had it re-barreled (Lothar Walther) to 280 Ackley Improved, free floated the barrel in a Bell & Carlson stock. Fireforming brass, with a top end 280 Remington load, bullet engaging the rifling to insure the case was resting on the bolt face it shot a 5-round group at 3/8". Using the FF brass I loaded 60 gr of IMR 4831 powder (after consulting Chubb Eastman at Sierra) and the Sierra 140g spire point bullet the small groups continued. Velocity was 3100 fps.
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I have a 77 in 7x57 and I hunt with it often. I also reload for that caliber so I don't have problems finding it. I have no complaints. From what I recall reading previously, the 7x57 was the preferred caliber of Jack O'Connor's wife for a number of years. I think it is very well suited for just about any game on the North American continent. Note I don't have any issues with a 270 either, I just really never used it much.
Right off the top of my head I can't remember if I load this using BLC2 or 4320. At any rate it shoots nicely and I have killed a good many deer with it.
Right off the top of my head I can't remember if I load this using BLC2 or 4320. At any rate it shoots nicely and I have killed a good many deer with it.
Paul B
Hunter
I would think twice about using a Remington Rolling block unless I also planned a full rebarreling job on the action, that is if the RB you have is one of the smokeless versions.
If you have a copy of Ken Waters Pet Loads, he has seveal of his articles on loading the 7x57. In one of them, the forst one IIRC states that there was an article in the American Rifleman about the dangers of the RB rifles in 7x57. A few years later I got a deal giving me all of the copies of the Rifleman from 1936 through sometime in the 1970s. few missing for 1936/37 and all of 1939 but other than that I have all the rest. I found the article Waters mention and what the deal is there are some RBs made for a latin American country that had a different chamber but for what readon no one knows. These are the ones that blow up even with the mild factory ammo. My suggestion is if you find an RB in 7x57, insist on a competent gunsmith do a proper chamber cast before buying the gun and if it turns out OK, stick with at or near the starting loads in the manuals. I took that copy of the AR and had the article copied and sent it to Mr. Waters. He published a lot of good information and even though much of the powder and bullets used are no longer around, the book is well worth the price and a great read.
Paul B.
Thanks again for the great info.
The 7x57 (or 7MM Mauser) was the first bottleneck cartridge developed for smokeless powder so it has that going for it, and it has to be the oldest cartridge still in very common use, which is a testament to Paul Mauser's brilliance.
Then you have the .275 Rigby which is how the English referred to the cartridge…
W.D.M. Bell also known as Karamojo Bell, the famous English ivory hunter shot most of his elephants with the 275 Rigby!
Lipsey's limited exclusive 275 Rigby M77 is an absolutely beautiful rifle and the first time, to my knowledge, that Ruger used that cartridge designation on the M77.
Then you have the .275 Rigby which is how the English referred to the cartridge…
W.D.M. Bell also known as Karamojo Bell, the famous English ivory hunter shot most of his elephants with the 275 Rigby!
Lipsey's limited exclusive 275 Rigby M77 is an absolutely beautiful rifle and the first time, to my knowledge, that Ruger used that cartridge designation on the M77.
I was thinkin the RB was a modern made reproduction rifle not the originals from the 19th century.
KS25-06
Single-Sixer
From what I was told the lack of accuracy with the 7x57 in the early 77's was because they were chambered for the 175 grain bullet. Also, Ruger was sourcing barrels from almost everybody in the early days. I had two early flat bolt 220 Swift varmint rifles. One would shoot 1/2-5/8" groups, the other around 1-1&1/2" groups.
Paul B
Hunter
I think the big problem came from the Wilson barrels Ruger used. They were sold prechambered slightly short so all Ruger had to do was clean up the chamber and properly set up the headspcing. Biggest problem was IIRC, Wilson set the chamber a bit too long. The M77 I had and my Ruger #1 7x57 both had chambers that were too long The #1 had a throat that was over two inches as proved by chamber cast. Ruger replaced the barrel and the rifle shoot just fine. The M77 also had a chamber cast done and it too had a throat that just barely made spec so Roger passed on that one, I did find a load runnng 140 gr. Sierra Game Kings that place shot in an inch of slightly less. One other thong regarding those chambers, some were quite fat and brass fired in them many times couldn't fit in other chambers and it took a small base die to fix the problem. My M77 also had that problem but that rifle could handle some ferocious loads. Later on I learned that the 7x57 in a modern rifle could handle loads using 7-08 data.
Paul B.
Paul B.
instructor
Single-Sixer
While attending a local gun show and getting ready to leave went back in the facility to make sure I had not forgotten anything, and two somewhat disheveled guys come by carrying a Mauser sporting rifle in not so good shape. Asked them if I could take a look at it and sure enough it was an FN Mauser mfg. action in caliber '06. Told them I would give them a $100 dollar bill for it and not a problem, it was mine. I know the history of the 7x57 or as it is also known as 275 Rigby caliber, they are the same cartridge. Stock was salvageable and cleaned up nicely and since Douglas Barrel Co. is just a few miles from me away it went and was fitted with their barrel in 7x57/275 Rigby caliber. Fitted the barrel with banded front sight, banded front sling device, and island style rear sight fitted with either a peep insert, or shallow V two blade insert. I prefer the peep insert to use for hunting. Studied the true Rigby Highlander rifle they mfg. and attempted to "clone" that rifle with mine. A new mfg. Rigby is in excess of $10,000 and few years for delivery, which neither fit my lifestyle or budget. The rifle is quite accurate and a joy to shoot for recoil is a bit more than the 243 round.
Paul B
Hunter
"Rigby is in excess of $10,000 and few years for delivery, which neither fit my lifestyle or budget. The rifle is quite accurate and a joy to shoot for recoil is a bit more than the 243 round."
Rigby doesn't even build rifles. They get barreled actions from Mauser, make a few alterations and the stock and you pay big bucks for their name.
I approve of the cartridge you chose and suggest whenever possible to buy as much brass, ammo and components as possible. The 7x57 ammo and bras can sometimes be hard to find as Winchester and Remington only make short "season" runs of ammo and brass. One can usually find some Federal at big box stores like Cabelas or Sportsman's Warehouse. Some of the places like Midway have Privi Partisan ammo and brass which I've heard is pretty decent stuff. I've seen mixed reports regarding S&B stuff but have not used Privi or S&B in my rifles. (3) FN made good stuff and my 7x57 Mauser is based on an FN. I also have a Ruger #1 A and Winchester M70 Featherweight.
Y our choice whether to stick to manual oad data based for use on the old M93 and M95 Mausers or run with 7-08 data. It appears perfectly safe in a modern action and I've gotten good brass like using that data. Like said though, your choice assuming your Mauser is based on the M98 action.
Paul B
Rigby doesn't even build rifles. They get barreled actions from Mauser, make a few alterations and the stock and you pay big bucks for their name.
I approve of the cartridge you chose and suggest whenever possible to buy as much brass, ammo and components as possible. The 7x57 ammo and bras can sometimes be hard to find as Winchester and Remington only make short "season" runs of ammo and brass. One can usually find some Federal at big box stores like Cabelas or Sportsman's Warehouse. Some of the places like Midway have Privi Partisan ammo and brass which I've heard is pretty decent stuff. I've seen mixed reports regarding S&B stuff but have not used Privi or S&B in my rifles. (3) FN made good stuff and my 7x57 Mauser is based on an FN. I also have a Ruger #1 A and Winchester M70 Featherweight.
Y our choice whether to stick to manual oad data based for use on the old M93 and M95 Mausers or run with 7-08 data. It appears perfectly safe in a modern action and I've gotten good brass like using that data. Like said though, your choice assuming your Mauser is based on the M98 action.
Paul B
instructor
Single-Sixer
Since the delivery time on a Rigby Highlander rifle is some few years, it is simply false to say Rigby does not build rifles. They do indeed have a staff of very experienced workers and offer many, many levels of enrichments to their rifles. Purchasing Mauser actions and barrels from Mauser is indeed a fine source of such items to use in building rifles of Rigby quality and performance. Prior to Ruger purchasing a barrel making machine they did indeed use barrels from various manufactures, some were good and some were not good.
Sugar River
Buckeye
I scratched my itch for a 7x57 by picking up one of the Win M70 Featherweights that was a special run
back in 2013. Took it to Namibia the following year and it did the job superbly on everything from Gemsbok
to Black Backed Jackal using hand loaded 160 gr Partitions and Accubonds.
back in 2013. Took it to Namibia the following year and it did the job superbly on everything from Gemsbok
to Black Backed Jackal using hand loaded 160 gr Partitions and Accubonds.
I purchased a used m77 mk1 about 15 years ago from and auction site. I was playing around reloading for my No.1's and shooting the Hornady super performance factory. I could never get my reloads to group with lighter bullets (140 grain) in that older M77. My newer No.1's liked my loads, well kind of. I was never able to squeeze out great groups but rather good hunting groups of 2 to 3 inches. I found some 175 grain factory ammunition in a shop and found that the rifle printed the best groups with that factory 175 grain. Grouped about 1.5 at 100 yards.
As time passed, my failure to achieve the types of accuracy in the bullet weights I was using caused me to loose interest. I traded off my 7x57 and currently do not have any rifles in that chambering. I always enjoyed reading and researching about this interesting caliber but it did not perform as intended with my choices in rifles.
Bill
As time passed, my failure to achieve the types of accuracy in the bullet weights I was using caused me to loose interest. I traded off my 7x57 and currently do not have any rifles in that chambering. I always enjoyed reading and researching about this interesting caliber but it did not perform as intended with my choices in rifles.
Bill
