Ruger LC 45 First Shot Anolamy

[Siringo]

I recently purchased the LC 45. Love it. Other than the trigger sucks.

When I was checking my velocities, every single first shot, no matter the hand load or factory load, with or without suppressor, the velocity was consistently 75 fps slower than all the rest of the shots. Put in a fresh magazine and the same thing happens. First shot is always slower. Has anyone else noticed this??

 

[Pál_K]

Weird.

What is your chronograph?

Do you notice this with any other gun?

 

[NikA]

Have you checked for bullet setback yet? The loading/firing process in blowback PCCs is pretty violent and I've experienced "hot" loads due to setback. In a .45 it was enough to push loads transonic.

 

[GunnyGene]

Nope, but I don't have a chrono so I just have to go by the group, which is always pretty tight. I have no idea why that would be happening for you. Maybe something with your chrono and not the ammo? Try this: With a fresh fully loaded mag, fire the first shot at the ground or berm so the chrono won't record it, then fire your chrono group and see if you get the same problem.

 

[Siringo]

Weird.

What is your chronograph?

Do you notice this with any other gun?

New Garmin. Works with everything else.

 

[Siringo]

Have you checked for bullet setback yet? The loading/firing process in blowback PCCs is pretty violent and I've experienced "hot" loads due to setback. In a .45 it was enough to push loads transonic.

Good thought. I'll measure the next time. But I've shot factory, 185 RN, 200 RN, 200 SWC, 230 RN (all the aforementioned bullets are coated except factory) and 230 grain Berrys. Always the first round out the gate. All other shots have very low variations.

 

[Siringo]

Nope, but I don't have a chrono so I just have to go by the group, which is always pretty tight. I have no idea why that would be happening for you. Maybe something with your chrono and not the ammo? Try this: With a fresh fully loaded mag, fire the first shot at the ground or berm so the chrono won't record it, then fire your chrono group and see if you get the same problem.

I'll try that next time.

 

[gunzo]

The 1911 has a quirk like this. not to this extreme but known. Some think it's from riding the slide home with the hand, in your case, the bolt. Many insert a mag & rather than handling the slide they hit the slide release & let the slide slam the cartridge home naturally, just as the rest of the mag would be fed. ( the proper way to chamber an AR-15 as well)

A quick n easy try, especially having a Garmin. You lucky dog.

And BTW,,,, welcome to the forum.

 

[Siringo]

The 1911 has a quirk like this. not to this extreme but known. Some think it's from riding the slide home with the hand, in your case, the bolt. Many insert a mag & rather than handling the slide they hit the slide release & let the slide slam the cartridge home naturally, just as the rest of the mag would be fed. ( the proper way to chamber an AR-15 as well)

A quick n easy try, especially having a Garmin. You lucky dog.

And BTW,,,, welcome to the forum.

I've tried charging both ways. The results are the same. Where I first noticed this issue was testing loads at 50 yards. Every set had a shot out of the group a couple of inches. That's when I brought out the Garmin (best chronograph I've ever used)

 

[Siringo]

I tried your suggestion. Loaded 6 rounds and fired one away fro the Garmin. All subsequent shots were within velocity range. I used Fiocchi 45 target match. Velocity was around 1050 fps.

I then tried it again with all shots thru the chronograph and the 1st shot was 100 fps less than all the others.

I also shot a lever action and velocities were all consistent.

I'll try that next time.

 

[Siringo]

Update: I spoke with Ruger today and they do not know why the first round is "soft". The techs and the engineers don't know either, other than a comment that this happens with other blow back carbines in 9mm.

Maybe others that have these can see if they are getting first shots "soft".

So the drift of the conversation was "this is normal" and we don't know why this happens.

By the way I have a Henry Homesteader and this does not happen.

 

[GunnyGene]

I tried your suggestion. Loaded 6 rounds and fired one away fro the Garmin. All subsequent shots were within velocity range. I used Fiocchi 45 target match. Velocity was around 1050 fps.

I then tried it again with all shots thru the chronograph and the 1st shot was 100 fps less than all the others.

I also shot a lever action and velocities were all consistent.

Well, this is a real puzzler then.

 

[GunnyGene]

Update: I spoke with Ruger today and they do not know why the first round is "soft". The techs and the engineers don't know either, other than a comment that this happens with other blow back carbines in 9mm.

Maybe others that have these can see if they are getting first shots "soft".

So the drift of the conversation was "this is normal" and we don't know why this happens.

By the way I have a Henry Homesteader and this does not happen.

Maybe you can find ammo that won't do this. Judging from your ammo list above, I'm guessing you haven't tried out any +P. That might make a difference. Underwood has a couple of +P offerings, and I'd suggest ordering a box of each all the way up to the 255gr +P FNHC. Expensive, but I can't think of anything else that might help.

Shop Ammo - Page 1 - Underwood Ammo

underwoodammo.com

 

[Pál_K]

Have you checked for bullet setback yet? The loading/firing process in blowback PCCs is pretty violent and I've experienced "hot" loads due to setback. In a .45 it was enough to push loads transonic.

This is the only thing that makes sense. Measure the overall length of the rounds before loading them. Fire the first round. Take the rounds out and measure them again.

 

[Siringo]

One possibility is powder position in the case. The round will be different than all the rest. I need to see if I have a powder that is not position sensitive.

 

[Mobuck]

I'll go out on a limb and offer this: regardless of how one loads the rifle from an empty chamber, IT WILL NOT be exactly the same as when the action cycles during firing. Even the most vigorous of hand cycling is not as 'violent' as cycling during firing.

 

[Siringo]

I'll go out on a limb and offer this: regardless of how one loads the rifle from an empty chamber, IT WILL NOT be exactly the same as when the action cycles during firing. Even the most vigorous of hand cycling is not as 'violent' as cycling during firing.

That's true. AND maybe that's were powder position comes into play.

 

[Bruce51]

I believe this fps difference is simply a case of the powder being forward in the case for the first shot.
After the first shot the next cases have the powder back against the primer.
Just tip the firearm up before firing and all the shots should be the same.

I read an article where powder forward powder back was tested using 38 Special loads. A long time ago I believe it was in the Shooting Times.

In any firearm, that I shoot, if I don't tip up the muzzle the first shot always feels lighter.

Just my $.02

Bruce

 

[Siringo]

I believe this fps difference is simply a case of the powder being forward in the case for the first shot.
After the first shot the next cases have the powder back against the primer.
Just tip the firearm up before firing and all the shots should be the same.

I read an article where powder forward powder back was tested using 38 Special loads. A long time ago I believe it was in the Shooting Times.

In any firearm, that I shoot, if I don't tip up the muzzle the first shot always feels lighter.

Just my $.02

Bruce

That's a good point. I'll test that out and report back.

 

[Guv]

I believe this fps difference is simply a case of the powder being forward in the case for the first shot.
After the first shot the next cases have the powder back against the primer.
Just tip the firearm up before firing and all the shots should be the same.

I read an article where powder forward powder back was tested using 38 Special loads. A long time ago I believe it was in the Shooting Times.

In any firearm, that I shoot, if I don't tip up the muzzle the first shot always feels lighter.

Just my $.02

Bruce

If so, would a max load with say, Blue Dot help correct this? Would as mentioned earlier +P also shrink this delta between first and next shots?