Revolver Ammo - SP 101 357 magnum and LCR

Help Support Ruger Forum:

mike-h

Bearcat
Joined
Dec 30, 2009
Messages
40
Location
florida
This post is seeking inputs regarding ammo selection for Ruger SP 101 and LCR revolvers - - for test use and for defense use - - from the many savvy, sharing and experienced members of this forum.

My good wife and I have several SP 101's plus several LCR's on order, and have been all over the map following hype, etc. as trying to standardize on a very, very short list of ammo for test and for defense uses. At this point we have fired perhaps 2,000 rounds through our SP101's with a huge variety of ammo, plus 100 rounds through a range-rental LCR.

Here is where we are after reviewing tons of stuff written/tested by others and finally from our own test firing. I want criticism and improved guidance from smarter guys and gals >

For both guns - here's where we are:

a) Target/practice > 158 gr TMJ and LRN local reloads. I choose these because of price, readily availability and pick the 158 gr weight based on fact Ruger's Engineering told me they use that weight in their quality control tests and I want my POA and POI aimed at what they expect with the sights. (I have also used many factory loads from many suppliers, too).

b> Defense use (home and carry) > no reloads - using factory loads-only > a mix of Extreme Shock EPR frangible 38 special 115 gr (1185 fps and 387 ft-lbs) and 357 mag (1498 fps, 618 ft-lbs) - - mixed with Hornady Critical Defense FTX 110 gr 38 special (1175 fps, 337 ft-lbs energy). I selected these based on various factors, including not-to over penetrate, apparent power, our POA-POI effectiveness, and recoil-kindness also for my wife). [Of course for the LCR I do not use the Extreme Shok 357 mag round]

Question to other SP 101 and LCR users > What would you recommend changing and why?
Much, much appreciated.
Mike
 

Rob1109

Bearcat
Joined
Dec 22, 2009
Messages
25
Location
United States
mike-h":3u5gi403 said:
This post is seeking inputs regarding ammo selection for Ruger SP 101 and LCR revolvers - - for test use and for defense use - - from the many savvy, sharing and experienced members of this forum.

My good wife and I have several SP 101's plus several LCR's on order, and have been all over the map following hype, etc. as trying to standardize on a very, very short list of ammo for test and for defense uses. At this point we have fired perhaps 2,000 rounds through our SP101's with a huge variety of ammo, plus 100 rounds through a range-rental LCR.

Here is where we are after reviewing tons of stuff written/tested by others and finally from our own test firing. I want criticism and improved guidance from smarter guys and gals >

For both guns - here's where we are:

a) Target/practice > 158 gr TMJ and LRN local reloads. I choose these because of price, readily availability and pick the 158 gr weight based on fact Ruger's Engineering told me they use that weight in their quality control tests and I want my POA and POI aimed at what they expect with the sights. (I have also used many factory loads from many suppliers, too).

b> Defense use (home and carry) > no reloads - using factory loads-only > a mix of Extreme Shock EPR frangible 38 special 115 gr (1185 fps and 387 ft-lbs) and 357 mag (1498 fps, 618 ft-lbs) - - mixed with Hornady Critical Defense FTX 110 gr 38 special (1175 fps, 337 ft-lbs energy). I selected these based on various factors, including not-to over penetrate, apparent power, our POA-POI effectiveness, and recoil-kindness also for my wife). [Of course for the LCR I do not use the Extreme Shok 357 mag round]

Question to other SP 101 and LCR users > What would you recommend changing and why?
Much, much appreciated.
Mike

I have both and I shoot whatever is cheapest.....130 gr. ball for the SP and whatever ball for the LCP. For carry I STRONGLY recommend that you carry what ever your local LEO's carry. In my area that would be Speer Gold Dots. If you ever have to explain your choice of hollow points to a jury "I use what our local police use to defend themselves" End of story. Also, in the SP I only carry .38Spc. +P. The chance of .357 overpenatration is too great in urban areas. Best.......
 

mike-h

Bearcat
Joined
Dec 30, 2009
Messages
40
Location
florida
Hello Rob, thanks. You sure perked up my head. A few questions might help me clear the bean >

1. You said "The chance of .357 overpenatration is too great in urban areas." I agree most 357 rounds do that and my selection criteria is intended to avoid that. Regarding the frangible 357 round I mentioned
as 'frangible' - - it is my understanding that is an enhanced penetration round where the bullet head disintegrates before exiting and is especially effective in penetrating bone to access vitals. If so, would that make it OK in your view?
(same would probably also go to other frangibles such as MagSafe and Glaser Silver you think?)

2. I fully understand your "to a jury "I use what our local police use to defend themselves" End of story". What I am concerned about is that we have heard about political correctness in many police departments regarding rounds their officers are 'allowed' to use, which can mean it might not be the most effective round in stopping the BG and in defense of the officer. While I never want to ever hurt any innocent I sure want to defend myself and my family - - so I need rounds that will do that, and is reason for this posting.

However, I will do as you say and ask by LEO what they use and why. Thanks for the idea.

3. You said your local LEO uses Speer Gold Dots, would that be the Speer Gold Dot, .38 SPL +P GDHP, product # 23921 I believe designed 7-8 years ago, with speed 855 fps and energy 225 fit-lbs ??
If that is correct then to this novice they seem to be of relatively low impact energy so I was wondering if that round has some other special attribute that the more modern defense rounds (some I mentioned) do not provide - - or, what am I missing?

It sure seems like many of the better ammo firms are doing a lot of good work lately regarding defense ammo for individuals - - and i tried to pick some of those as I look for help from others, too.

4. LCR recoil >Are you yourself using as a defense round the above Gold Dot +P round in your LCR revolver - - and if so have you found recoil impact to the hand might be acceptable to most ladies? I ask this thinking of my own wife. If it does not recoil/sting then perhaps that's Speer's aim to target smaller gun owners but to do so they ratchet down the impact energy. Does that make sense?

Thanks mucho Rob.
 

Rob1109

Bearcat
Joined
Dec 22, 2009
Messages
25
Location
United States
mike-h":svvwenhd said:
Hello Rob, thanks. You sure perked up my head. A few questions might help me clear the bean >

1. You said "The chance of .357 overpenatration is too great in urban areas." I agree most 357 rounds do that and my selection criteria is intended to avoid that. Regarding the frangible 357 round I mentioned
as 'frangible' - - it is my understanding that is an enhanced penetration round where the bullet head disintegrates before exiting and is especially effective in penetrating bone to access vitals. If so, would that make it OK in your view?
(same would probably also go to other frangibles such as MagSafe and Glaser Silver you think?)

2. I fully understand your "to a jury "I use what our local police use to defend themselves" End of story". What I am concerned about is that we have heard about political correctness in many police departments regarding rounds their officers are 'allowed' to use, which can mean it might not be the most effective round in stopping the BG and in defense of the officer. While I never want to ever hurt any innocent I sure want to defend myself and my family - - so I need rounds that will do that, and is reason for this posting.

However, I will do as you say and ask by LEO what they use and why. Thanks for the idea.

3. You said your local LEO uses Speer Gold Dots, would that be the Speer Gold Dot, .38 SPL +P GDHP, product # 23921 I believe designed 7-8 years ago, with speed 855 fps and energy 225 fit-lbs ??
If that is correct then to this novice they seem to be of relatively low impact energy so I was wondering if that round has some other special attribute that the more modern defense rounds (some I mentioned) do not provide - - or, what am I missing?

It sure seems like many of the better ammo firms are doing a lot of good work lately regarding defense ammo for individuals - - and i tried to pick some of those as I look for help from others, too.

4. LCR recoil >Are you yourself using as a defense round the above Gold Dot +P round in your LCR revolver - - and if so have you found recoil impact to the hand might be acceptable to most ladies? I ask this thinking of my own wife. If it does not recoil/sting then perhaps that's Speer's aim to target smaller gun owners but to do so they ratchet down the impact energy. Does that make sense?

Thanks mucho Rob.

Sorry I took so long to reply to you...got tied up with other things.
I "feel" from your questions/comments that you may be getting overwhelmed with the "minushia" of bullets/ballistics etc. i.e. M.V. vs. M.E. vs. POA vs. POI vs. bullet weight, yada, yada. ~95% of gunfights take place at 21ft. or less. So, point shooting is in order(I beleive). We are all overly concernted with "one shot stops" THEN SHOOT TWICE! OR THRICE! Double tap center mass, and a third of he doesn't stop. A .45 or 9mm FMJ has ~62% one shot stop. 2= 124%, 3=186%. How dead do they need to be? Speer GD's are used by NYPD execuslivly (~40,000 guns). The French police use the same execusively (not that we should EVER emulate the French!). I like the concept of frangeables, but, they WILL penatrate walls. If our round is a through and through and we hit a kid (with my luck it would be a pregnent lady), you've bought the farm. Through and through is the problem with FMJ. I'm rambling here, and probably not giving you the advice/counsel you're looking for. When my local PD carried Win. Silvertips, that's what I carried, now it's Gold Dots. That being said today a picked up 2 boxes (50 round) of WIN. Ranger 127gr. 9mm LEO only +P+. Yes I'm a hippocrite!! I'll load my 33 round Glock mag. with them. Yes, I have an affinity for 9mm, but I also have 2 std. G.I. .45's and a Colt Enhanced Combat Comander (alloy).45

Long story short, find the cheap stuff for practice. Get B27 targets and at 21ft, shoot the hell out of them! Find reliable functioning HP's your happy with, stock up on everything. Hp's are designed to not overpenatrate, and do the most damage. A local cop returned fire on a normal sized 18 year old who had shot at him: he hit the kid SIX TIMES with a .45! They patched the kid up and took him to jail! Nothing vital hit.....
Also, I think PD's decide on ammo based on ballistic testing and price. I'm using Speer GD Short Barrel +P rounds in the SP101, LCR (with a "brisk" recoil) and 9mm for Glock 26 (~65% of U.S. LEO's carry Glocks, I've read). Probably .40. Our local LEO's (Las Vegas) carry whatever they want. The guys that have pit bulls use .45's, most probably .40's and the remainder 9mm. If your wife is recoil sensative (most are) then experiment sarting with very light loads and work up to waht she feels she will like, keeping in mind that under extreme stress (trust me) you/her will never notice recoil! I'm still rambling!!! Best.....
 
Joined
Dec 1, 2007
Messages
2,704
Location
Texas
Why not use the 158 grain +P lead SWC HP for defense use? Same bullet weight as your practice load. Been used by law enforcement for many years. Adequate penetration unlike some of the lightweight HP bullets. You could use the sameload in both revolvers, simplifying your inventory.
 

Rob1109

Bearcat
Joined
Dec 22, 2009
Messages
25
Location
United States
arfmel":ce76l1yb said:
Why not use the 158 grain +P lead SWC HP for defense use? Same bullet weight as your practice load. Been used by law enforcement for many years. Adequate penetration unlike some of the lightweight HP bullets. You could use the sameload in both revolvers, simplifying your inventory.

I agree! Excellent round! Buffalo Bore has one with a gas check, hot and fast. Just too expensive for practice. I read somewhere that the heavier are easier on the forcing cone. I don't understand why, but, I'll take their word. For reloaders there is a hard cast version out there, and one soft with a gas check. I can probably find it if someone really needs it. The only problem is the short barrel ~2". Most of these are/were designed for longer (4+")barrels. This site has some really good info. Best.....

http://www.snubnose.info/docs/snubby_ballistics.htm
 

rockman

Bearcat
Joined
Dec 1, 2009
Messages
13
I shoot winchester for practice and Hornady critical defense for the other...
 

mike-h

Bearcat
Joined
Dec 30, 2009
Messages
40
Location
florida
arfmel
Interesting what you say as often wanted to consider my defense rounds same weight 158 gr as target rounds which is same weight Ruger uses quality control tests. However, have not been lucky.

Thanks for your input for 158-gr. LSWCHP +P I think you mean, the so called chicago/FBI load. Right?
Here's a nice promo discussion about that round at
http://www.hipowersandhandguns.com/38 Special 158gr LSWCHP.htm - sorry if I messed up the url post, first time try.

Interesting you mentioned that round as quite often I have looked for places on the web selling it, to no avail. I wanted to check it out and test fire some.

I did find a 'Remington 38 Special + P 158 Grain Lead Hollow Point product # R38S12' but was unable to confirm this was it.

Can you direct me to several reliable sources of supply on the web and the manufacturer names and product numbers?

thanks much
Mike
 

mike-h

Bearcat
Joined
Dec 30, 2009
Messages
40
Location
florida
Thanks rockman,
you said > "I shoot winchester for practice and Hornady critical defense for the other..."

1. For you winchester for practice, a 158 gr round?
2. Are you using a SP 101 (3" or ?) or an LCR, or both?

thanks, Mike
 

Rob1109

Bearcat
Joined
Dec 22, 2009
Messages
25
Location
United States
mike-h":ngxuxenp said:
arfmel
Interesting what you say as often wanted to consider my defense rounds same weight 158 gr as target rounds which is same weight Ruger uses quality control tests. However, have not been lucky.

Thanks for your input for 158-gr. LSWCHP +P I think you mean, the so called chicago/FBI load. Right?
Here's a nice promo discussion about that round at
http://www.hipowersandhandguns.com/38 Special 158gr LSWCHP.htm - sorry if I messed up the url post, first time try.

Interesting you mentioned that round as quite often I have looked for places on the web selling it, to no avail. I wanted to check it out and test fire some.

I did find a 'Remington 38 Special + P 158 Grain Lead Hollow Point product # R38S12' but was unable to confirm this was it.

Can you direct me to several reliable sources of supply on the web and the manufacturer names and product numbers?

thanks much
Mike

Midway has (probably) every .38 round one could want. Look at the Remington and Winchester for the 158Gr. SWC HP +P. They're all the same. Also Buffalo Bore...
http://www.midwayusa.com/browse/BrowseP ... 3***691***
 

jtf650

Bearcat
Joined
Feb 20, 2007
Messages
20
Location
Connecticut
mike-h":23fgtfhp said:
arfmel

Interesting you mentioned that round as quite often I have looked for places on the web selling it, to no avail. I wanted to check it out and test fire some.

I did find a 'Remington 38 Special + P 158 Grain Lead Hollow Point product # R38S12' but was unable to confirm this was it.

Can you direct me to several reliable sources of supply on the web and the manufacturer names and product numbers?

thanks much
Mike

The R38S12 is the FBI load. It's backordered at Midway: http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/?p ... ber=548921

I do agree that it is hard to find, especially considering it is supposed to be such a famous load. I have rarely seen it in local shops, maybe it's just not tactical enough. Or just too old fashioned. Good luck with the search.
 

ronto

Hunter
Joined
Mar 22, 2006
Messages
2,118
Location
Deep in the Arkansas woods
I use 357 Speer 135gr GDHP "Short Barrel" in my 2 1/4".
I'm not a ballistics expert or reloader and like to keep things simple. From the tests I've read, the above round will stop any lethal threat that I may encounter.
 

mike-h

Bearcat
Joined
Dec 30, 2009
Messages
40
Location
florida
Hey Rob,
regarding your "Also Buffalo Bore" - -

Are you referring to > 'Buffalo Bore Ammunition 38 Special 158 Grain Lead Semi-Wadcutter Hollow Point Box of 20'
[u][b]http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/?productNumber=453925[/b][/u]

??

Note that page says > Muzzle Velocity: 854 fps - Muzzle Energy: 256 ft. lbs. I'm no ballistic expert but seems to me these are extremely slow and weak rounds. Need an expert here to help.

Or, are you speaking of a different round?
thanks a bunch
 

mike-h

Bearcat
Joined
Dec 30, 2009
Messages
40
Location
florida
Hello jtf650

Thanks confirming R38S12 is the FBI load, from Remington. Back ordered as usual.

You made a very interesting comment > "I do agree that it is hard to find, especially considering it is supposed to be such a famous load. I have rarely seen it in local shops, maybe it's just not tactical enough. Or just too old fashioned."

Here comes a ramble about modern defense ammo vs old - - not to educate but as a call for assistance. Here goes >

Often, as you Google this and that searching for info regarding 38 special defense loads so often one runs across a zillion places basically saying that FBI load is the greatest thing since sex - - yet it seems these are mostly quite old postings especially where there appears some sort of data backing up statements. So, from that its natural many 38 special guys like me would try to order that round - - essentially driving up its price and being consistently lowering availability.

But, but > as we all know with the advent of more snubbies and soaring carry permits many states the interest in defense has gone up a lot - - a heck of a lot in say the past 2-3 years, for sure. In response to this we see Ruger come out with their LCR and LCP (sort of aimed at soaring gun interest by women) and some of the more progressive ammo firms have completed a lot of engineering on new defense ammo - - now on the market. Such as Hornady's critical defense ammo, the exotics of MagSafe and Extreme Shok, and others.
So, we would be fools not to look real hard at this new stuff - - which I have been trying to do - - and is the reason for my opening post here. To my way of thinking, and perhaps I am all wet, just because some older rounds such as the so called FBI load were some of the best out there many years ago, does not mean they should be considered top of the 38 special defense heap today.

Additionally, with more women shooting - - like my dear wife how loves it - - not only are the gun firms working on lighter and smaller stuff for that market but such lighter stuff is naturally much less recoil friendly to sweet female hands than the heavier guns if you fire 158 gr stuff, +P stuff, or much of the older ammo. So, the defense ammo firms seem to be going for faster but lighter grain stuff - - which most women can handle ok.

Enough of my rambling and taking up any reader's time - - but I guess this is another call in our post series for some up to date ammo expert guys and gals to post and make us smarter - - for me, make me a lot smarter - - and tell me where I should change my defense ammo listing at the top of this series.

Thanks again, jtf650, for your post - - its all your fault for causing me to ramble and agree with your > "just not tactical enough. Or just too old fashioned." Yes, we need to be up to date - - why not know the best defense ammo possible that we can effectively fire and afford for our SP 101s and LCRs -

experts - please come aboard.
thanks
Mike
 

bjec1248

Bearcat
Joined
Oct 29, 2009
Messages
19
I have both guns & I shoot .38s in both, just whatever, so I don't have to try to sort out .357s from .38s. at self-defense ranges I bet the bad guys won't know much difference--the "minutiae" comment above fits my philosophy--you can over-think anything.
 

Rob1109

Bearcat
Joined
Dec 22, 2009
Messages
25
Location
United States
mike-h":1pwlqgg3 said:
Hey Rob,
regarding your "Also Buffalo Bore" - -

Are you referring to > 'Buffalo Bore Ammunition 38 Special 158 Grain Lead Semi-Wadcutter Hollow Point Box of 20'
[u][b]http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/?productNumber=453925[/b][/u]

??

Note that page says > Muzzle Velocity: 854 fps - Muzzle Energy: 256 ft. lbs. I'm no ballistic expert but seems to me these are extremely slow and weak rounds. Need an expert here to help.

Or, are you speaking of a different round?
thanks a bunch

Go to Buffalo Bore's site and see std. and +P .38Spc. listings, especially out of the short barrels.
 

mike-h

Bearcat
Joined
Dec 30, 2009
Messages
40
Location
florida
rockman":1vlffd4h said:
I shoot winchester for practice and Hornady critical defense for the other...

Hornady CD in both SP 101 and the LCR?
2nd question > did you note any appreciable recoil in the LCR compared to the SP101?
thanks.
Mike
 

revhigh

Hawkeye
Joined
Aug 31, 2005
Messages
5,590
Location
PA
Geez, you guys act like you're out shooting somebody every day of the week.

Just pick a brand name commercial self defense round and be done with it. You could throw darts at the choices and not make a bad choice.

REV
 

Tommy Kelly

Buckeye
Joined
Apr 24, 2008
Messages
1,045
Location
MISSISSIPPI
I reload and have for years. I shoot hardly any 357 ammo. I reload 38 wadcutter for all my 38 357 pistols. Below max load its a good shooting load that is very accurate. I have setteled on this load and have around 2500 loaded and on hand all the time. The recoil isn't bad and the accuracy is fine. So I see no need in changing anything. It shoots to poa with fixed sighted pistols and I adjust the others to the load and enjoy shooting them at whatever.
 
Top