Repeat of NW fires

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Rancher Will

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Probably very few on this site know this but here is a comment concerning the fires this year in the Northwest.

As a young boy I arrived in Idaho in 1936 with my family. In 1939 the whole Northwest, including Montana, Idaho, Washington, Oregon, British Colombia, etc., was incinerated about the same as appears to going on today. Prior to this year 1939 was the worst fire year in the Northwest on record. I was just a school boy then but I well remember that there were so many fires over such a large area that most were permitted to just burn until snow fall in the fall. In 1939 fire fighting was actually only trying to save towns and populated locations, and that was not completely successful.

I suspect that we are seeing history repeating itself with the difference that today there are a great many more people living in those areas than were there in 1939.
 

6gun

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We are in year two of drought in Washington state. if the drought continues fires next year will be far worse.
 

Don Lovel

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We have been so lucky here in the SLV, the rains blessed us well, but now, there is pretty deep weeds everywhere, of course rabbit brush and rhododendron type brush with highly flammable sap is all getting big too. Beetle kill over on Wolf Creek pass area is apocalyptic looking, once all that dead lodgepole gets burning, it aint going to stop until it is consumed and there are sure a bunch of acres of it.
Over here above Crestone there is about a 1000-1500ft wide strip at about 9500-10,500 that has a bunch of huge sized Ponderosa and Spruce that are dead. Our bigger danger is wind blown fires from the valley getting up into the pinion or a house fire up here in the higher part of the Baca getting the woods going.
Our localVFD is some good guys but our local POA management, very much in the way, I tried to be a member of the VFD, but I am old school enough about doing that sort of thing that a libtard lesbian who things she owns the department and all the equipment, no thanks, I wont work for her. She will get someone killed or this mountain burnt up do to her idiocy and decision making processes
 

AJGUNNER

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Jan 15, 2007
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PDX%20Smoke%208-22.jpg


One of my old timer neighbors says he can't remember it being this smokey here since the Tillamook Burn and that took place in the 1930's. The news said that visability at the airport was down to less than 2 miles. While this does not sound real bad, if you know the Portland airport you also know that they rarely even see fog this thick. The airport is on the Columbia river and the wind is almost constant there blowing either East or West. Not always a strong wind but usually enough to keep the air moving.

So this is what Portland looked like yesterday and today. Sort of reminds me of Los Angles. :wink: The winds were fierce yesterday with gusts to 50mph and swirling all over the place. The closest major fire is probably over 100 miles from town. Yesterday some idiot decided to cut down a tree in his rural yard. Yes there are restriction in place over the entire state prohibiting any outdoor fires and any gas engines like chain saws running between 10am and 8pm. Despite these restrictions the guy fired up his saw and dropped a tree on a power line. This not only started a fire but also started others down the line where the tension/snap on the line created arch's that started numerous other small fires. Lucky for him they were able to get them all out quickly before any got out of hand. The news says that he will be billed for it. One of the other big fires was started by another idiot that hit a rock while mowing his grass.

My place is dryer than I have ever seen it. What is left of yard grass actually crunches under your feet. I have leaves in the yard that I would love to suck up with the mower, but I don't really want to be "that idiot on the news" that burns out his neighbors. Likewise, I would love to do a bit of shooting out in the pasture. Lead hitting steel plate should not be a problem---right??? Not me---again I don't want to be "that guy on the news".
 

Wyandot Jim

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Messages
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What is soooooooooooooooooooooooo sad is the our Govment will not support or build dedicated aircraft to fight these fires the way they should be fought.
Old worn out and not enough of planes just doesn't work.
 

Colonialgirl

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Interestingly enough, Back in the late 1950's or 60's; A Ranger here in Florida did a study that over a period of five to six years PROVED that the forests/woodlands here in Florida actually benefited from "forest fires" because it not only burned off all the choking underbrush but ALSO recycled dead limbs, leaves and such BACK into the soil.
As I recall, he had two 5 or 7 acre identical sections and one, he burned off while leaving the other alone. They said that for the first four years, the UNBURNED section seemed to be doing better, but then as it went down hill, the burned off section made massive improvements in growth and health that FAR outstripped the unburned section.
They had made fun of him early on and ended up having to EAT their words later.
Read about it in my "Biology**" course called "Man and His Environment" while working towards my AA and BS degrees.
**Note: My major did NOT require a Biology "lab course".

SO in three or four years, it would NOT surprise me to hear that the forests/woods/etc are doing much better, growing MUCH greener. SAY; Didn't something similar happen to Yellowstone National Park? How is that doing these days?
 
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Can't remember the exact location but last year I read the book on the big fire out in the Northwest in the early 1900's just after Teddy was president.... it was one more serious fire and created it's own weather system of close to hundred mile and hour winds and the firestorm was so great that many of the firefighters could not out run it.
 

Wyandot Jim

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Messages
5,088
Colonialgirl said:
Interestingly enough, Back in the late 1950's or 60's; A Ranger here in Florida did a study that over a period of five to six years PROVED that the forests/woodlands here in Florida actually benefited from "forest fires" because it not only burned off all the choking underbrush but ALSO recycled dead limbs, leaves and such BACK into the soil.
As I recall, he had two 5 or 7 acre identical sections and one, he burned off while leaving the other alone. They said that for the first four years, the UNBURNED section seemed to be doing better, but then as it went down hill, the burned off section made massive improvements in growth and health that FAR outstripped the unburned section.
They had made fun of him early on and ended up having to EAT their words later.
Read about it in my "Biology**" course called "Man and His Environment" while working towards my AA and BS degrees.
**Note: My major did NOT require a Biology "lab course".

SO in three or four years, it would NOT surprise me to hear that the forests/woods/etc are doing much better, growing MUCH greener. SAY; Didn't something similar happen to Yellowstone National Park? How is that doing these days?
Guess They never heard of Yellowstone. If the fire gets hot enough it burns EVERYTHING. It will only take some of the areas in the US 100 years to get back to the way they were.
You burn a 100-200 year old tree well guess what it might take awhile for another one to take it's place :wink:
 
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Wyandot Jim said:
What is soooooooooooooooooooooooo sad is the our Govment will not support or build dedicated aircraft to fight these fires the way they should be fought.
Old worn out and not enough of planes just doesn't work.

The company I retired from, Columbia Helicopters, flies to great fire fighting effect civilian versions of the CH-47 Chinooks and CH-46 Sea Knights. We have now or had exclusive use contracts with California for fire fighting duties. These aircraft have in the past and will in the future be used to great effect at fire fighting in the west. A very valuable asset for precision large capacity water drops.

Dave
 

snowman2

Bearcat
Joined
Dec 27, 2012
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83
Wyandot Jim said:
What is soooooooooooooooooooooooo sad is the our Govment will not support or build dedicated aircraft to fight these fires the way they should be fought.
Old worn out and not enough of planes just doesn't work.

Dedicated waterbombers are being built not i the US but in Quebec Canada. Every province has them. They are awesome to watch when you see them in action. The old models had R2800 P&W engines the new models have turbo prop engine what type I don't know. I'm sure if your government asks Canadair would gladly build them.
Harv
 
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What's sad...The National Forests in my neck of the woods are logged very little, and there seems to be no forest management. The brush has taken over everywhere. The forest service and logging roads are being allowed to be overcome by vegetation and are no longer usable. In the old days, a small fire could be contained on the ground with a forest tender and fire crew. Now, there's very little access on the ground, so the small fires become big fires which can only be fought from the air.

WAYNO.
 

6gun

Hunter
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Oct 10, 2012
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gramps said:
6gun said:
We are in year two of drought in Washington state. if the drought continues fires next year will be far worse.
How will anything grow enough to leave anything to burn?
gramps

The why things are going there may not be anything left to burn next year seeing as how it takes a century for large trees to grow back.

Another thing that helps fuel these fires making them more intense is Washington will not allow dead or downed trees to be removed and harvested from forests.
 

Don Lovel

Hunter
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Nov 10, 2003
Messages
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visibility was a little bit better around here Sunday, but sinuses and eyes are tortured all week this last week as the thick smoke settled into the SLV to the point I cannot see Banca peak to the south or across the valley 40 miles away
 

SAJohn

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Jan 6, 2007
Messages
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Until about 10 years ago, here at the Redmond Airport, we had a small fleet of DC-7's as firefighting tankers. For miles around this area we knew when a fire had started just by the sound of those four mighty Prat 3350 engines at climb power.
 

Wyandot Jim

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SAJohn said:
Until about 10 years ago, here at the Redmond Airport, we had a small fleet of DC-7's as firefighting tankers. For miles around this area we knew when a fire had started just by the sound of those four mighty P&W engines at climb power.

Yep poor old civilian aircraft trying to do a job they were not built for. They did the best they could. Like trying to use a helo just doesn't have the load carry ability required.
 

SAJohn

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This is a DC-7 fire tanker here in Central Oregon doing its' job. The pilot must think he is flying a Mustang.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=EATEdbQ3qXc
 

Rancher Will

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Blume357, That was the great forest fire year of 1910. Until 1939, 1910 held the recorded record for massive Northwest Forest Fires.

Here is just little item you may not have known. The Pulaski forest fire tool used by the Fire Fighters was invented at the time of the 1910 fires by a Forest Supervisor in Idaho named Pulaski. It is a tool with a double bit, one side an ax and the other a grub-hoe. As I remember from what we were told in 1945 when I was at the Athol, Idaho CCC Camp, Pulaski saved a crew of his fire fighters by herding them into an old mine shaft to let a run-away fire bypass them in the 1910 fire. He was considered a hero by the Forest Service even as late as 1945 when I was living and working at the Athol camp on Blister Rust eradication before I got the job on the cattle ranch where I worked as a cowboy until 1949. We used Pulaski's to grub out Goose Berry Bushes in the National Forest.
 

Rancher Will

Blackhawk
Joined
Oct 10, 2010
Messages
748
Wayno, It is not a coincidence concerning how the forests are mismanaged today.

Remember it was Pres Clinton who banned logging on National Forests with his executive order that also required forest service access fire control roads to be "returned to their natural state".

Our forests here in Colorado suffered the same fate as you mention, including our State Forests for the reason that then Colorado Gov Romer, a Democrat, copied Clinton to help create additional hardship for forest fire fighters. The National Forest areas where I have grazing permits for my cattle in the summer no long have forest access roads for the reason that the former fire control and Forest Service Management roads have all been graded over and let grow back to brush and trees. These policies are one reason why Colorado has had so many devastating Beetle Kill fires over the past few years. The Forest service is no longer permitted, by Democrat Policy to work on Beetle Control and fire prevention.
 
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Messages
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Rancher Will said:
Wayno, It is not a coincidence concerning how the forests are mismanaged today.

Remember it was Pres Clinton who banned logging on National Forests with his executive order that also required forest service access fire control roads to be "returned to their natural state".

Our forests here in Colorado suffered the same fate as you mention, including our State Forests for the reason that then Colorado Gov Romer, a Democrat, copied Clinton to help create additional hardship for forest fire fighters. The National Forest areas where I have grazing permits for my cattle in the summer no long have forest access roads for the reason that the former fire control and Forest Service Management roads have all been graded over and let grow back to brush and trees. These policies are one reason why Colorado has had so many devastating Beetle Kill fires over the past few years. The Forest service is no longer permitted, by Democrat Policy to work on Beetle Control and fire prevention.

I remember this executive order all too well. The forests are a mess, as I predicted they would be. The tree huggers think they won a great victory. If they only knew the impact to animals...and to the forest.

WAYNO.
 

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