Removing barrel from LCR for 22LR conversion

[Sam Summey]

Why screw around wrecking a perfectly good handgun. Buy some reloading equipment, 2.8 grains of Bullseye and a 148 Wadcutter bullet. The recoil will be almost the same. That will cost about .10 per round or less. The economics of buying another LCR, and modifing it to shoot "ceaper" 22 LR don't wash. You would have to shoot a powerful lot of 22 LR to offset the expense.

 

[contender]

+1 SAM!

 

[JDP_12]

The goal is to have a carry ( stock 38 ) and a practice ( 22LR ).

"Practicing" what, exactly? Shooting a modified .22LR LCR at stationary paper targets is a great, economic consideration for building or reinforcing the foundations of proper grip, sight aligment, sight picture, trigger control, follow through, etc. Remember, howwever, that it has absolutely no practical translation to shooting .38 +p personal protection rounds in a stessful life or death situation - which is why we all carry in the first place. Managing the recoil and muzzle-flip of the more potent .38 loads is paramount to being able to put 5 shots downrange both quickly AND accurately. Target shooting is one thing. Gunfighting is another. Your LCR is a self-defense weapon - practice with the holster and ammunition that you stake your life on every day. Become proficient with it.

That being said - the mod sounds like a cool, interesting project, in and of itself.

 

[contender]

JDP_12 "Welcome to the Forum."
As an instructor I take exception to your suggestion of only shooting & practicing with the exact ammo you use as carry ammo.
You mentioned it about about it being great shooting an economic caliber to build all the good shooting principals. With that I fully agree.
But it has been documented, proven, & well known that in a stressful,, combat or self defense situtation,, MOST people,, unless they are combat veterans, (soldiers using the skills daily,) will NOT notice recoil, count shots, focus on the front sight, etc at all. They get tunnel vision, tune out sound,, and the adreniline causes them to focus on the threat alone.
So,, practicing with cheaper ammo, to become "muscle memory" familiar with any SD firearm is an EXCELLENT thing. You can occasionally use the full power SD loads, to understand & learn the differences in them vs practice ammo,, but it's not as necessary to practice with them exclusivily.
A highly respected police LEO instructor, author, & court paid expert Mass Ayoob & I were recently discussing several things,, and a few casual comments about this subject were made. He agreed with me completely,, and he makes it known in his books & classes.

The human body responds to training,, especially repetitive identical types of actions to where it becomes "muscle memory." ingrained into our subconciousness. Think about driving your car. You do all the same things each & every time you get in a car,, and do not think about each step performed. It has become muscle memory to unlock the door, open the door, get in, put on the seat belt, insert the key, placeing your foot on the brake, checking your movement area, placing it in gear, using the gas pedal & brake, & actually driving. Muscle memory.
Same thing with shooting.
I'd rather have a person who rarely shoots a gun shooting at me with their big 45's vs a person who also has a 45 but practices with an identical 22 a lot. The one who practices a lot will most likely hit me,,,using muscle memory.
So,, again,, I agree with Sam in that spend the time, efforts & money in cheaper practice ammo, and become muscle memory proficient with the same gun,,,!

 

[JDP_12]

Contender - thank you for the welcome. We're veering off-topic here but wanted to clarify my post: If muscle memory is the objective, why shoot any ammo at all? Get some snap caps and practice the draw, grip, sight alignment, and trigger control. This will be cheaper than .22 ammo.

My comments regarding practicing with full-power carry ammo were simply meant to reinforce just that: become proficient with the holster, gun, and ammunition that you intend to save your life with. I'm afraid there simply is no substitute. Dry-fire has its merits, as does practicing with lower caliber/power ammunition. But neither are a substitute.

I'm sure Mr. Ayoob, who's reputation, articles, books and videos I'm intimately familiar with, would agree on this point: if you, as a civilian, choose to carry a handgun for personal protection, you have the responsibility of competence with that weapon, as well as an understanding of the laws regarding the judicial use of lethal force. Competence means demonstrating proficiency.

I think we can agree that for an average shooter, grouping 5 shots with a .22 is inherently easier than grouping 5 shots with a snub-nosed .38 Special, for a whole host of reasons. Ultimately, proficiency (fast, accurate, repeatable hits in a fist-sized group at combat distances) with a .38 will come from practicing with it's intended ammo. Hence my comments.

 

[WANT A LCR 22LR]

A couple of things. At least in the short term Ruger, is unlikely to consider a 22 version, they are dealing with trigger lockup issues with early LCR's. My 10-30-09 first factory fired LCR is being checked at the factory now.

Final practice will be with the 38 LCR, but putting hundreds of rounds through something with less kick and cheap ammo is worth while for a new shooter. I've only been shooting since Jan 2010 and currently have fired ~ 2000 rounds between a 4" GP 100 and the LCR. Being able to shoot more is more of a issue of hand abuse than ammo cost, though that matters too.

There are plenty of other guns that come in large and small bore, if there wasn't a need / market they would not be there. From what I gather, the 1911 even comes in a 22LR. Walther (ne S&W ) makes a automatic 22, Glock probably does to. You can even get a AR-15 in 22 LR.

S&W makes the 317 8 shot 22LR airlight as a companion to it's airlight 38 / 375. The 317 has made the difference between my lady friend being able to fire 250 22 rounds followed by 15 rounds of 38 every other week vs maybe 50 rounds of 38 and being out of commission for a month +. In fact when she first started shooting, after 100 rounds or so she was out of commission for 6 months.

In this case who is learning more, the 22 / 38 shooter or the 38 only shooter.

Coming from a sports car racing background, a new driver is much better driving a slow car 12 hours a year than a bullet for a hour and a half.

I know full well, the cost of a one off conversion won't be cost effective on it's own. I'm hoping to generate enough interest by designing and hopefully making the conversion that Ruger takes up the project for mass market.

Ruger needs a tackle box / kit gun, the LCR is perfect for this, modern , light weight, not pricy.

 

[WANT A LCR 22LR]

A couple other thoughts.

This thread is still on topic in a greater sense, is addressing the merits of a small bore practice gun.

I gauge my progress by the accuracy of the first 3 shots when I get to the range. The next 197 shots are there to build muscle memory. On the past few trips these first 3 are landing more frequently , 2 center mass and 1 to the head at 20 - 25 ft. This is from picking the gun off the table and making it happen without thinking or taking time to be aware I'm aiming. Isn't this what counts, being able to react to a threat rapidly? I've even gone so far as to leave the gun in the brass bin at the shooters station, walk the range return to my station grab and fire. ( I'm walking across on not to the targets )

Since the first shot is " get the gun up and pointed in the correct direction " and not a recoil recovery it matters little if the load is a 38 or 22 from a aiming perspective. Besides, in a PD situation, make the first one count! As for recoil changing the impact point, a person is pretty big at 20 ft, even with recoil you are going to hit something.

I doubt the average person is going to be able to practice for every threat and be able to instantly pick the correct response. What they should work towards is being able to " be in the fight ".