Remember all the reasons Ruger would never make a 44 Special

[pbslinger]

Reading a thread about if the Lipsey's 44 Special guns was supposed to be a limited run or not, reminded me of all of the discussions from the past about Ruger making a 44 Special.

My foggy memory seems to recall some of the reasons people used to say Ruger was resistant to, or wouldn't build 44 Specials.

One was that since they made 44 Magnums, and 44 Specials fit in the chamber, it was uneccesary.

One was that Ruger wasn't going to subject themselves to liabilty from shooters hotrodding the 44 Special.

Anyone remember all this now moot talk?

 

[G2]

Ohhhh yes I do.

I talked w/ one of the higher ups from Ruger at the NRA show in AZ/ 09 and he did admit that they were suprised at the response to the Lipsey's .44 special and hinted to me then they were going to add it to the line-up.

and now the Bisley FT .44 special, Stainless, it's all good.

 

[Enigma]

I distinctly recall when the 50th Anniversary .357 was introduced, I e-mailed Ruger and asked them to introduce the same gun in .44 Special. Their response was that they had no (none, zero, nada, zip) intention of offering the gun in .44 MAGNUM.

Now it's a regular cataloged offering in .44 Special. Go figure.

 

[M'BOGO]

I remember hearing there was an unwritten "agreement" with the sixgun smiths... If I were prone to the overused LOL, now would be the time.

 

[Jimbo357mag]

I remember hearing there was an unwritten "agreement" with the sixgun smiths... If I were prone to the overused LOL, now would be the time.

You could always use the rolling eyes. :roll:

....And the Cowboy Shooters are still scratching their heads, "where are the 44special Vaqueros????"
Hey, and I don't shoot Cowboy but it sure would make sense. :roll:

...Jimbo

 

[two bit okie]

I have only a passing interest in the 44 spec, but it might be neat to have a pair of brite stainless new vaqs in 44 special. I just wonder if any one makes a mod 92 clone in 44 spec? hummmmmmmmmmmm.

 

[Jimbo357mag]

I have only a passing interest in the 44 spec, but it might be neat to have a pair of brite stainless new vaqs in 44 special. I just wonder if any one makes a mod 92 clone in 44 spec? hummmmmmmmmmmm.

Rossi "Puma" model '92. I believe the 44 mag guns will chamber the 44 special as well. Long barrel, short barrel, octagonal barrell, big loop, stainless, you name it.

https://www.galleryofguns.com/genie/def ... pen+Sights

...Jimbo

 

[ProfessorWes]

Okie, unless you have your heart set on a '92 Winchester-style gun, the Henry Big Boy also is available in a .44 Mag/ .44 Special version. Having just bought two of Henry's Lever Octagon .22s - one for myself and the other for my father - and being quite impressed with their quality and functioning, I'm likely going to buy a Big Boy next. Unless I find one of the new Lipsey's Bisley .44 SPL flattops first...

And Michael Bane said on his blog the other day that Cimmaron offers their 1866 Winchester replica in .44 Special; he apparently has one of his own.

(EDIT: Here is the link to the aforementioned Cimmaron '66, and it's a beauty: http://www.longhunt.com/1866/index.htm )

 

[M'BOGO]

There may just be a moment of clarity coming...

Granted there was no big press releases, media campaigns, ammo company "NEW MAGNAUM! BIGGER! BETTER! FASTER! MORE "STOPPING POWER", NOW YOU ARE A MAN!, NOW YOU CAN SCARE WOMEN CHILDREN AND ANY BEAST THAT WALKS THE EARTH" ads about a 100 year old cartridge you cannot find ammo for at most retailers.

But it does do everything a .45 ACP will do and more, in a fun package. I do love my .45 Colt and .44 mag chambered Blackhawks. But the midframe just feels right in the hand. Hopefully the flattop Blackhawk .44 spc stays in the lineup for years, along with the Vaquero that doesn't exist at this moment.

 

[surveyor47]

The "fly-in-the-works" is Old Elmer Keiths data. It isnt going to take long for people to start trying to duplicate his 44 Special data in special run guns. It is one thing for Buffalo Bore to get 1050 fps out of their loads, given their engineering expertise, not to mention insurance. If you think there are idiots out there trying to find the "real upper limit of the 357 Magnum', wait till that crowd gets hold of Lipseys 44 Specials. :roll:

The question is how strong are these guns built on 357 frames? There are so many Ruger models and frame sizes out there, that I am not sure that I trust Ruger Loads in anything but the 3 screw Blackhawks, first New Model Blackhawks and Old Vaqueros. The one thing that I do know is that my New Model Super Blackhawk is a real 44 Magnum. Still, a smaller, lighter 44 Special is awful tempting, particularly the Bisley.

 

[M'BOGO]

The "fly-in-the-works" is Old Elmer Keiths data. It isnt going to take long for people to start trying to duplicate his 44 Special data in special run guns. It is one thing for Buffalo Bore to get 1050 fps out of their loads, given their engineering expertise, not to mention insurance. If you think there are idiots out there trying to find the "real upper limit of the 357 Magnum', wait till that crowd gets hold of Lipseys 44 Specials. :roll:

The question is how strong are these guns built on 357 frames? There are so many Ruger models and frame sizes out there, that I am not sure that I trust Ruger Loads in anything but the 3 screw Blackhawks, first New Model Blackhawks and Old Vaqueros. The one thing that I do know is that my New Model Super Blackhawk is a real 44 Magnum. Still, a smaller, lighter 44 Special is awful tempting, particularly the Bisley.

All good points. Unfortunatly, you can't teach good or common sense in school. If you want a .44 mag get what you want, and use it as you please. Not a one up, but I have seen a Super Blackhawk with an upturned topstrap, and two piece cylinder, with many pieces of both missing. Hopefully no innocent partys are injured when Darwin gets some excersize.

 

[Driftwood Johnson]

One was that Ruger wasn't going to subject themselves to liabilty from shooters hotrodding the 44 Special.

Anyone remember all this now moot talk?

Yes, I clearly remember Ruger saying that when the New Vaquero first came out. I remember seeing it in print several times, even if you don't. I was as surprised as anybody when they offered the smaller frame Blackhawk in 44 Sp.

 

[Rclark]

One was that Ruger wasn't going to subject themselves to liabilty

I guess I don't see what the problem is. .44 Special has a SAMMI pressure standard (15,500 psi) . Ruger can't be held liable for you loading over that.... Just seems logical to me. Personally I think that is a bit low for modern revolvers, but it has to stand because of all the 'older' revolvers out there. It would be nice if someone would do what Linebaugh did for Ruger .45 Colt, on the Ruger .44 Special . Put all the 'questions'/concerns to rest.

Another discussion:

http://rugerforum.net/gunsmithing/17262 ... post173005

 

[Driftwood Johnson]

Ruger can't be held liable for you loading over that.... Just seems logical to me.

Does it also seem logical that Ruger could not be held responsible if some idiot loaded a 3 screw with six rounds and then shot himself when the gun fell and landed on the hammer? Well, that is exactly what happened, that is why Ruger redesigned their single action line so that it could never happen again, and that is exactly why Ruger is extremely leery of lawsuits, however frivolous they may seem. And that is why they stated when the New Vaquero came out that it would not be chambered for 44 Special. They were afraid of lawsuits when some clown tried to shoot Kieth type hot 44 Special loads in one. I clearly remember reading this.

Like I said earlier, nobody was more surprised than me to see that they have chambered the smaller framed Blackhawk for 44 Sp. The lawyers must have relented.

 

[Yosemite Sam]

How come nobody is worried about the New Vaq in .45 Colt, which is at least as capable of being hot-rodded as the .44 Special?

-- Sam

 

[Driftwood Johnson]

How come nobody is worried about the New Vaq in .45 Colt, which is at least as capable of being hot-rodded as the .44 Special?

I wish I had a dollar for every time that question has been asked. Because of the 44's reputation as the 'most powerful gun in the world'. It was just assumed that more yahoos would try to play Elmer and hot rod the 44 Sp than the 45 Colt.

 

[M'BOGO]

No need to get ruffled about it, just enjoy.

 

[Yosemite Sam]

How come nobody is worried about the New Vaq in .45 Colt, which is at least as capable of being hot-rodded as the .44 Special?

I wish I had a dollar for every time that question has been asked. Because of the 44's reputation as the 'most powerful gun in the world'. It was just assumed that more yahoos would try to play Elmer and hot rod the 44 Sp than the 45 Colt.

I'd almost bet right about now that, outside of RF, there are so few people that identify with "Elmer" that this would be a very limited concern. Not to denigrate the man's heritage, it's just we're talking about a very, very niche thing in the big world of guns, where poly combat pistols are now king.

What would be more likely these days is the same yahoo buying a .44 Special gun and trying to stuff .44 Mag ammo into it, only to return it to the store with, "It's broke."

-- Sam

 

[mattsbox99]

I thought it was a huge secret that you could shoot .44 Special in .44 Mag chambered guns... but whatever sells guns doesn't bother me one bit!

 

[Dale53]

The NRA Reloading manual has excellent pressure tested data regarding Elmer Keith level loads.

There was NOTHING wrong with Elmer's loads in the .44 Special. Literally HUNDREDS of individuals ran those loads through large frame .44 Specials (from Colt SAA's to S&W Model 24's and later 624's).

I have had and still have several different revolvers both double and single action for the .44 Special. When I got my first one, I ran some of Elmer's loads through them. I didn't care for the recoil in my light barreled Model 24 S&W and settled on Skeeter's load (7.5 grs of Unique behind a 250 gr Keith). That'll do all I need in my older revolvers and now my new 5½" .44 Lipsey Special.

However, if I didn't have several .44 Magnums (I do) I would, without a blink of an eye run 16.5-17.0 grs of modern 2400 behind a 250 gr Keith bullet. It is a safe load if not particularly pleasant to shoot in a good condition modern large frame .44 Special.

FWIW
Dale53