Redhawk accuracy

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sevenshooter

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Part of your issue may well be the oversized bullets (the .431's) And the cowboy step expander should be used for lead bullets
I have a NOE .430- (Step .432) expander, for my .432 casts. I think l mentioned before that l have a .423 expander l bought a used that was in the box. Odd. l mean l get .004 tension with the cowboy expander. What expander should l have for an oversized jacketed bullet? I could get another one from NOE.
 

contender

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Older manuals. As technology has evolved,, so have the methods of testing for pressure. Older manuals got their data using a different technology than what is used currently. Plus,, as powder lots & mixes have evolved,, so have the burn rates a bit. That's why I always buy the newest & latest manuals to follow. I do keep my old manuals for reference when needed,, as sometimes it can be hard to find data for some calibers.

You mention "oversized" jacketed bullets. Most of the makers I've seen offer a .430 jacketed bullet for a gun that's nominally bored for a .429 diameter. Do you have a normal expander die set from any of the big makers such as RCBS, Hornady, Redding or Lyman? If so, I'd use that set for jacketed bullets. Millions of reloaders have done this for decades w/o any problems.

NOE expanders & such are primarily for cast stuff. Cast bullets can require a different approach to loading due to the variations of cast bullet sizes,, and the need for different bullet diameters to match a bore or throat. The same goes for the use of Cowboy dies. They were built to be used with cast bullets.

Your .423 expander is often used in many die sets for .44 mag. I just checked (3) sets of dies I have here for the .44 mag. two of them use a .423 expander plug,, and I also have one that's .426. One of these sets of dies is in my "spare stuff to sell or trade" and I figured I'd check them along with my sets on my bench. The expander in the main set I use is the .426. But I also shoot more cast & powder coated bullets anymore.

I also had a thought about all this. Humor me. When you mentioned "buckled" cases,, I envisioned cases crushing beyond use. By chance,, are you just getting a "bulge" from a bullet that makes the case below the seated bullet appear buckled? Can you get a picture up showing the buckled cases?
Just pondering here,, trying to help.
 

sevenshooter

Bearcat
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Just looked in what I have for the latest Hornady #9 manual. Bluedot has a max charge of what the #3 has for a start load... 15. I don't feel uncomfortable about using old load data, been doing it for many years. If they extract easily, and the case head isn't bulging, which they barely expand at all, I'm fine with that. I do not have but one die set with the .432 expander.

My jacketed oversized bullets are .431. The grooved diameter is .431 with .4325 throats. Since you said NOE is "Primarily" for cast bullets, doesn't mean it can't be used for my application, same goes for the cowboy expander. Considering my bullet is .002 larger than yours, the cowboy expander is .002 larger, it makes sense to use it, wouldn't you say ?? Even the Hornady XTP's are .001 over. I got an Odd Redhawk.

I see a very slight bulge barely with the eye with my cowboy expander. They chamber freely with no issues with slight sticking after firing that takes a little harder tap on the extractor. A new case head is .453 and a fired case after 5 fires, is .455. The cases are not buckled beyond use, and yes below the seated bullet.

I resized the cases and fired them, and for the most part, they straightened out, you can barely feel the buckle after firing.
 

contender

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Ok,, Your Hornady manual #9 is outdated. They are into #11 right now. But I pulled a #9,, and they list Hornady XTP bullets as being .430,, not .431.
I would get the newest manual,, AND not look for max charges as my desire. I would look for the most accurate load. My first Redhawk .44 mag was VERY accurate with Hornady jacketed bullets,, with a load that was just one up from the starting load using IMR 4227. Blue Dot is a hotter & faster burning powder than what most of us who shoot 50-200 yds with big bore handguns. HS-6, 2400, 4227 Longshot are all preferred.
But back to the cases.
If I understand it correctly,, you are not getting severely crinkled cases,, but instead,, just getting a little bulge. When I first read this,, I envisioned the stuff I've seen folks have loading say,, 38-40,, where it's a thin bottleneck case subjected to easily crumpling & total wasting of the brass.

So,, again,, if I read this right,, you are just getting a bit of a bulge. I've seen this a lot in all kinds of calibers. It can be traced to thick case walls vs thinner ones,, or a slight difference in the expander of the dies. AND IT'S NOT AN UNCOMMON THING. I've seen different lots of brass from the same maker,, being loaded at the same time as each other,, and some get a little bulge,, & others,, none at all.

I don't really think you got an "odd" Redhawk.

Have you tried any factory ammo as a base line for testing things? Have you had someone else shoot your Redhawk using factory ammo to see if they get any different results than what you get?

Without going back through all the comments between us,, I don't recall mentioning what diameter bullets I use. But I never bother with anything if loading jacketed bullets,, as all the ones I've seen are .430. But if I'm shooting my cast & powder coated ones,, I do try & build my bullets to .001 over bore diameter. And yes,, cowboy dies can be used for loading jacketed bullets. You just have to set them up to do so.
NOE sizing dies,, or expander plugs,, again,, while they are designed for cast,, they should be capable of loading jacketed bullets. My experience with NOE has been only in cast stuff. And mostly their molds,, not any sizers or other stuff.

The slight bulge,, is not the same as a seriously crumpled case.

It's too bad you aren't closer to me,, as I'd gladly try & help you figure out what may be happening.
 
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The "Ignore" button comes in handy, sometimes. This thread spurred my use of it.

Hint: Contender's alleged asking of too many questions, and/or "harping on crap that doesn't matter" was not the reason for its use. 😎
 

gnappi

Blackhawk
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Getting banned on some sites is no sin. Some players like to start an argument skirting the edge of etiquette so they themselves don't get banned while drawing another into verbal combat and getting banned. :) What motivates that stupidity baffles me.

I read Contender's replies on this and other subjects and have yet to see one that's confrontational or provocative and meant to ruffle feathers. In fact he's one of the best resources of info that I've read on every forum I know him to be on.

Sevenshooter if you haven't bailed from this site, take a deep breath and try to see replies for what they ARE not what you THINK they mean?
 

hittman

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Some players like to start an argument skirting the edge of etiquette so they themselves don't get banned while drawing another into verbal combat and getting banned. :) What motivates that stupidity baffles me.
Thats the very definition of troll
 

Air-cooled

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I really don't care if my #9 manual is out dated, so is my #3. I dealt with you on the SA forum and got banned. So far you've been a PIA and you need to stop NOW.

Factory ammo is .429 and l have a groove of .431, figure it out.
Wow, I just reread this entire topic looking for what you were complaining about. Contender took a lot of time to try and help you out. You should apologize for your remark.
 

WV460hunter

Single-Sixer
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What did you expect . He was using a Sevenshooter !!! Who ever heard of a seven shooter anyway 🤷 Bugs Bunny and Yosemite Sam 😂😂😂
 
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