RED DOT LOADINGS (BULLET CHANGE)

[J. R. WEEMS]

Wish to load GD 250gn bullets with RED DOT-- use it loading lead in my 5" RED HAWK but want to use these Gold Dots -- Anyone have a source with info that has done this?? My load in lead is great with the Red Dot, to the point old timers of loading are asking me what my load is. These guys are SERIOUS about loading their 45 Colt loads. Any ideas here?? THANKS!!

 

[loaded round]

Being a reloader for over 45 years, I have to say that I don't believe that Red Dot is an appropriate powder for jacketed bullets in 45 Colt. However, the current Lyman #50 Manual does list a Red Dot load for a 250 gr LEAD bullet if you care to check out that load. Be safe!

 

[daveg.inkc]

I load 6 grs Red Dot with Missouri Cast bullets. It's a good for 800-900 fps. Shoots good in my Vaquero.

 

[Enigma]

Looking at Speer's online handgun data, they do not list a load for that powder and bullet combination in the .45 Colt. That should tell you something.

https://www.speer.com/reloading/handgun-data.html

 

[daveg.inkc]

Lyman#46 has Red Dot for .45 C. I also have several Reloader Guides from Hercules. 6 grs Red Dot and a 250 gr cast makes a good shooting round. I keep several boxes loaded with this combo.

 

[Rclark]

I don't use jacketed either (or ever tested any)... That said, I did find 6.5g Red Dot under 250g RNFP to be accurate in my revolvers.

 

[sixshot]

The reason you don't find much load data for the 45 Colt using Red Dot is, it's just not a very good powder in that big case. Just guessing but I'd say 6.5-7.0 grs just might be as far as I would want to go with a 250-260 gr bullet in a strong Ruger Blackhawk.
Recently I have been helping the widow of a very good friend get rid of a lifetime of guns & reloading stuff. In there was some 45 Colt loaded with Red Dot but I couldn't find any Red Dot powder on the shelf, I don't think my buddy ever used it & neither do I.
The load said, 255 gr bullet & 10 grs of Red Dot!!! Then I knew he didn't load it. He had a neighbor who had died 2-3 years before him & that guy had given him a bunch of reloaded ammo, I'm sure it came from that neighbor.
So I pulled it, luckily! 91 rounds had 10 grs of Red Dot, which is an overload for sure. I think 40 rounds had no powder at all & 52 rounds had 20 grs of Red Dot, yes a double charge! Enough to easily blow up any 45.

Dick

 

[don44]

Scary!

 

[jgt]

I came across a group on the Marlin owners forum once that were sharing loads for red dot in the 444 marlin cartridge. I suggested they stop the practice at once and get a loading manual. They told me to take my own advice. Turns out I found the loads they were using in an older Lyman cast bullet manual. It had no lot number for the red dot. I advised them there were tons of powders that would safely do what they wanted. I suggested several. It fell on deaf ears. It fact, they were indignant I had poked my nose in their business. All I could do is pray they didn't hurt themselves or others.

 

[TX Nimrod]

Condemning the use of RedDot in rifle loads may not always be appropriate. That powder has a very low bulk density and fills cases reasonably well. It is the powder used in "The Load" by C. E. Harris and has been safely used by thousands of shooters - as long as they follow Harris' recommendations. I won't comment on its use in the .444 as I don't know the particulars.

https://castbulletassoc.org/forum/thread/1387-the-load-is-13-grains-of-red-dot/

I love comments like "if the powder maker doesn't list data for powder X that tells you something!". Enlightened handloaders know that compiling load data is an expensive proposition, and testing every single powder in every cartridge with every bullet weight just makes no economic sense. Powder makers would rather sell their latest products and will spend the money on testing and publishing data for them, not 100 year-old powders. Just because powder X isn't listed does not mean it isn't safe or appropriate. Here is a relevant example: In Alliant's on line manual they do not list Unique for a 250-grain cast RN bullet in the .45 LC. Does that mean it isn't safe or appropriate? Tell that to the tens of thousands of reloaders who have used it. Unique is listed for other bullets, and clearly it is appropriate for the 250 RN. Bottom line: just because powder X isn't listed does not mean the manual thinks it is unsafe etc. It may or may not be, we don't know why it was excluded.

http://www.alliantpowder.com/reloaders/recipedetail.aspx?gtypeid=1&weight=250&shellid=36&bulletid=346


.

 

[jgt]

I don't claim to know all there is to know about reloading. That is why I still do it. I learn something every time I do it or discuss it. What I do know is Red Dot is an even faster powder than bullseye. Small amounts of bullseye in .38 special cases resulted in blown up k-frame Smith & Wesson revolvers used in target shooting on more than one occasion.
Red Dot was developed as a shotgun powder. A straight walled case like a pistol cartridge or rifle like the 444 may seem like it is ideal for a shotgun powder. It has been used many times in pistol cartridges and likely more than we know in some rifle cartridges.

What a reloader must consider in choosing a powder is more than what is shown in one or maybe even two loading manuals where not every detail is listed in those manuals. For instance: When a powder like Red Dot is used in a shotgun shell to construct a low velocity target load, it is constructed with an over powder wad. Today we call it a shot cup as it was developed to do double duty. That over powder wad was designed to be pressed into the case with a listed amount of wad pressure then the shot was placed on top which helped keep it there and then the case was crimped to make a compacted round with no large air spaces for the powder to shift its position away from the primer. When that same powder is placed in a pistol or rifle cartridge with no wad to keep it against the primer it could end up in a position where it all ignites at once causing a much higher pressure spike than was intended. Add in the mix a large bore cartridge case and heavy bullet. Now, add to that set of circumstances the powder is temperature sensitive and was loaded in the winter and is being used on a hot August day after laying in the seat of a closed up pickup all day and you have all the ingredients for a very high pressure spike. Some would counter with "there is no documented cases of this happening to wreck a gun". There may not be any "documented" cases, I don't know. That doesn't mean there haven't been cases that were considered "Unknown cause".

I am just trying to help reloaders think about how they construct their ammunition. All loading manuals do not list pressure levels of their loads. Those that do, the reloader has to be mindful to check if those pressure levels are listed in CUP's or PSI's. Most of the time they are mixed and mingled with each other.

This is America, you are still free to choose the parameters you set for you loading scheme. I will not be so arrogant as to tell you what to choose, but I would be a poor fellow reloader not to point out the pitfalls you could fall into if you do not focus on what you are doing when you approach your bench.

 

[Mus408]

I like 5.5 to 6.0 Red Dot with 230-255 gr. cast bullets in .45 Colt.

Now where did you find those 250 gr. Gold Dot bullets? Been looking for those a long time.

 

[dougader]

I don't understand using hard to get Gold Dot hollowpoints with a powder like red dot that most likely won't push the bullet fast enough to open up the hollowpoint. You're not taking advantage of the bonded hollowpoint design. It seems like a waste of money to me.

Lyman 49th Ed. manual shows a 250 lead bullet with a MAX of 6.5 grains Red Dot. You have a Redhawk that will take a lot of pressure so I wouldn't be concerned about 6.5 grains red dot being too hot for your gun. But as Dick/Sixshot points out above, just make sure you don't accidentally double charge that big case!

They're your bullets so of course you're free to do what you want with them. If it was me I'd stick with lead for the red dot loads and step up to something like Longshot, Power Pistol or 2400 for the Gold Dots. Then take a look at "Ruger Only" loading data for your Redhawk.

 

[Mobuck]

In the early 80's I split the cylinder of a 357 Blackhawk using RedDot and lead bullets. My loading equipment was "primitive" and best guess is a double charge. Be V E R Y careful using RD in big cases.