picketpin
Buckeye
The CHPs were NOT ordered by the California Highway Patrol and were never purchased or issued as departmental weapons.
This was a an offering from the C.A.H.P California Association of Highway Patrolem and was adverrised in the magazine/journal the A.P.B. This is an association of current, former and retired CHP officers and numbers in the thousands if not tens of thousands.
These guns are very much like the S&W 19-3 Texas Ranger Models that were issued for the Association of Texas Rangers and weren't ordered by the department or ever issued as duty weapons. They too were made in a high enough total number and available to the public so that the asking prices often have no basis in reality. Heck I got one through the police supply wholesaler and carried it as a duty weapon for 3 or 4 years as a joke just to see guys response when they saw it was a "Texas Ranger" and I even sprang for the 1 of 100 that were "A" engraved. I still have it complete with dings, scratches and holster wear.
It's often hard for us guys from western states with much smaller populations to remember that while states like Idaho, Wyoming, Nevada Montana have a few hundred State Police Officers or Highway Patrolmen predicated on how the agency is tasked and structured the CHP has THOUSANDS of sworn officers at any given time. That leads to tens of thousands of current, former and retired officers.
When I came back from the service and went to work for ISP as a Trooper (Idaho State Police) we has 112 sworn officers and that included everybody from the suprindedant to the lowest rookie. On average there as never more than 10 or 12 on duty at any given time, statewide.
Back to the CHPs. So they took orders and placed an order with Ruger and distributed the rifles ordered by members through their Association and local FFLs. The C.A.H.P. greatly over estimated the demand for the rifle among members and for years they were sold through normal wholesale channels via Ruger till they finally got rid of them.
In that aspect they remind me of the "Lyman Centenials" that at one time J&G advertised for $600 in SHOTGUN NEWS for years trying to get rid of them. In that case it was more the asking price and what you do with a 28" barreled 45-70 and yes I should have bought a couple back then. ;-)
As many people that worked at stores at the time or bought one back then have related, by the time they were all sold they were HIGHLY discounted to get them of the shelves. I suspect they were the all time slowest/worst seller in #1 history. Original price was $299 and I was offered several NIB years later for $212!!!
Chet: I think we see more of the 200 (or so) non CHP rifles on the market for a couple of reasons. First they were sold right along with the CHP marked rifles at the huge discount in price back when. I certainly should have bought one when offered at $212 NIB. That leads us to the second part of the equation. I suspect that most of the original 200 overrun guns were bought based on price and price alone. So years later the seller looks at it, doesn't think it has the "value" of the marked rifles, remembers what he paid for it and asks a reasonable price when he or his family puts it on the market.
As to your point of so many showing up. I think I may have seen a few dozen for sale in the last 20 years, most on the Web, certainly not two hundred.
The reverse seems to be the issue with CHP marked rifles. Guys bought them thinking they were a commemerative and "special" Heck some even initially paid retail. Very very few of those intial buyers had or have any specific #1 knowledge. So when they get ready to price their CHP marked rifle they "understand" that it is special and "Rare" and price it accordingly. Sadly what they don't understand is not only is it not "rare" but in the broad scheme of things it isn't even uncommon. There are always one or two for sale on the web and all are grossly over priced.
I think the sellers read an add for something like the non pre fix 270 "B" that is in fact worth the asking price (with less than 150 made in total) and they can't imagine their "rare" #1 as being worth anything less. So they post an asking price based on faulty information and/or lack of knowledge.
Personally I suspect these things will keep showing up at the inflated price till the day I die. Especially as most are in the hands of people that know somewhere between little and nothing about #1s. Okay, so I'm not being as kind or diplomatic this time around.
Sort of like the guy with the two that started this discussion on Rarest of the Rare and "How can you have a #1 collecion without one"? Very very easily.
For me as a semi serious owner/collector is just isn't rare or uncommon enough to spend my money on. Not when every non prefix #1 was made in lower numbers than the CHP regardless of caliber or configuration. Throw in the fact that MANY rifles that were cataloged for YEARS were made in far fewer numbers and then throw in the uncataloged short runs over the years with 84 rifles or 134 rifles or 200 rifles and all of a sudden 1820 rifles in a specific caliber configuration ceases to be vey rare at all.
My 2 cents worth
Ross
This was a an offering from the C.A.H.P California Association of Highway Patrolem and was adverrised in the magazine/journal the A.P.B. This is an association of current, former and retired CHP officers and numbers in the thousands if not tens of thousands.
These guns are very much like the S&W 19-3 Texas Ranger Models that were issued for the Association of Texas Rangers and weren't ordered by the department or ever issued as duty weapons. They too were made in a high enough total number and available to the public so that the asking prices often have no basis in reality. Heck I got one through the police supply wholesaler and carried it as a duty weapon for 3 or 4 years as a joke just to see guys response when they saw it was a "Texas Ranger" and I even sprang for the 1 of 100 that were "A" engraved. I still have it complete with dings, scratches and holster wear.
It's often hard for us guys from western states with much smaller populations to remember that while states like Idaho, Wyoming, Nevada Montana have a few hundred State Police Officers or Highway Patrolmen predicated on how the agency is tasked and structured the CHP has THOUSANDS of sworn officers at any given time. That leads to tens of thousands of current, former and retired officers.
When I came back from the service and went to work for ISP as a Trooper (Idaho State Police) we has 112 sworn officers and that included everybody from the suprindedant to the lowest rookie. On average there as never more than 10 or 12 on duty at any given time, statewide.
Back to the CHPs. So they took orders and placed an order with Ruger and distributed the rifles ordered by members through their Association and local FFLs. The C.A.H.P. greatly over estimated the demand for the rifle among members and for years they were sold through normal wholesale channels via Ruger till they finally got rid of them.
In that aspect they remind me of the "Lyman Centenials" that at one time J&G advertised for $600 in SHOTGUN NEWS for years trying to get rid of them. In that case it was more the asking price and what you do with a 28" barreled 45-70 and yes I should have bought a couple back then. ;-)
As many people that worked at stores at the time or bought one back then have related, by the time they were all sold they were HIGHLY discounted to get them of the shelves. I suspect they were the all time slowest/worst seller in #1 history. Original price was $299 and I was offered several NIB years later for $212!!!
Chet: I think we see more of the 200 (or so) non CHP rifles on the market for a couple of reasons. First they were sold right along with the CHP marked rifles at the huge discount in price back when. I certainly should have bought one when offered at $212 NIB. That leads us to the second part of the equation. I suspect that most of the original 200 overrun guns were bought based on price and price alone. So years later the seller looks at it, doesn't think it has the "value" of the marked rifles, remembers what he paid for it and asks a reasonable price when he or his family puts it on the market.
As to your point of so many showing up. I think I may have seen a few dozen for sale in the last 20 years, most on the Web, certainly not two hundred.
The reverse seems to be the issue with CHP marked rifles. Guys bought them thinking they were a commemerative and "special" Heck some even initially paid retail. Very very few of those intial buyers had or have any specific #1 knowledge. So when they get ready to price their CHP marked rifle they "understand" that it is special and "Rare" and price it accordingly. Sadly what they don't understand is not only is it not "rare" but in the broad scheme of things it isn't even uncommon. There are always one or two for sale on the web and all are grossly over priced.
I think the sellers read an add for something like the non pre fix 270 "B" that is in fact worth the asking price (with less than 150 made in total) and they can't imagine their "rare" #1 as being worth anything less. So they post an asking price based on faulty information and/or lack of knowledge.
Personally I suspect these things will keep showing up at the inflated price till the day I die. Especially as most are in the hands of people that know somewhere between little and nothing about #1s. Okay, so I'm not being as kind or diplomatic this time around.
Sort of like the guy with the two that started this discussion on Rarest of the Rare and "How can you have a #1 collecion without one"? Very very easily.
For me as a semi serious owner/collector is just isn't rare or uncommon enough to spend my money on. Not when every non prefix #1 was made in lower numbers than the CHP regardless of caliber or configuration. Throw in the fact that MANY rifles that were cataloged for YEARS were made in far fewer numbers and then throw in the uncataloged short runs over the years with 84 rifles or 134 rifles or 200 rifles and all of a sudden 1820 rifles in a specific caliber configuration ceases to be vey rare at all.
My 2 cents worth
Ross
