R.O.A. load

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J. D. Moreguns

Bearcat
Joined
Feb 22, 2009
Messages
61
Location
Lincoln NE
Is it possible to get 400 ft.# of energy at 50 yards using triple 7 powder and a 147 gr. round ball safely out of a RUGER OLD ARMY. If so how many grains by vol. :?:
 

Quarterbore

Blackhawk
Joined
Mar 9, 2008
Messages
904
Location
Valley Forge PA
Your question reminded me of this old thread:

http://single-actions.phpbb3now.com/vie ... &sk=t&sd=a

Note here in PA the requirement is for a .50 Cal handgun:
Muzzleloader Seasons: October Antlerless Deer Season - Any
single-barrel muzzleloading long gun with flintlock, in-line or percussion
ignition 44 caliber or larger, or 50 caliber or larger handgun.
Scope sights permitted.
From: http://www.portal.state.pa.us/portal/se ... ations_pdf

I have thought a .50 cal Old Army might be fun and the pic of the one at the end of that thread above has made me consider it more then once!
 

JNewell

Single-Sixer
Joined
Oct 12, 2001
Messages
250
J. D. Moreguns":17v0dwaf said:
Is it possible to get 400 ft.# of energy at 50 yards using triple 7 powder and a 147 gr. round ball safely out of a RUGER OLD ARMY. If so how many grains by vol. :?:

It may or may not be, but the ROA almost always shoot much more accurately with mid-range loads.
 

HammerMTB

Bearcat
Joined
Nov 28, 2009
Messages
28
Any quantity of black or black substitute you can jam in your ROA is OK to shoot.
So near fill the cylinder with pow, jam a RB on top, and top that with your favorite lube.
Run it across the chrono and see if it's 400 Ft Lbs energy. You just might make it.
As was said above, this will NOT likely be your most accurate load, just the one with the most smoke and boom 8)
 

lovesrugers

Bearcat
Joined
Mar 17, 2005
Messages
69
Nope, at least not in my gun. I have done extensive work with 777 in my Old Army and various bullets. With the round ball the max load of 777 is 45 grains by volume. At the muzzle this pushes the ball out at an average velocity of 1,193 fps. This gives a muzzle energy figure of 465 ft lbs. This sounds good until you move the load out to 50 yards. The round ball has a terrible ballistic coefficient. At 50 yards the velocity has dropped to 976 fps. This drops the energy at 50 yards to 311 ft lbs. So nope the max load with the round ball won't do it.

Don't worry all hope is not lost. I have shot other loads that will meet the law. Here they are:

Lee 225 grain conical bullet.
30 grains of 777 by Volume.
Average velocity: 918.5 fps
Muzzle energy:422 Ft lbs
Estimated velocity at 50 yards:875 fps
Estimated energy at 50 yards:383 ft lbs.
Ok this load is just shy of meeting the law.

Lee 225 grain conical bullet
35 grains 777 by Volume
Average velocity:1,028 fps
Muzzle energy:528 ft lbs
Estimated 50 yard velocity:963 fps
Estimated 50 yard energy: 463 ft lbs
This one easily meets the requirement.

Lee 250 grain REAL bullet
30 grains 777 by volume
Average velocity:879.4 fps
Muzzle energy:429 ft lbs
Estimated 50 yard velocity:839 fps
Estimated 50 yard energy:391 ft lbs
Ok, this doesn't look like it meets the requirement, however my bullets actually weighed in at 260 grains plus. Using that weight puts the estimated energy at 50 yards at 406 lb feet so it would meet the requirement.

Here are some pictures of the bullets mentioned above.

First off the 250 grain REAL bullet:
newbulletMedium.jpg


Now the 225 grain conical bullet:
_DSC0015Medium.jpg

Jerry
 

Doc Thornton

Bearcat
Joined
Mar 2, 2009
Messages
71
Location
Canal Fulton, Ohio
Lovesrugers, I assume that you cast those REAL bullets yourself.
What alloy are you using? It also does not look like you have sized
them, what it the diameter of the bullets when they drop from the
Lee mould? Thanks- Doc
 

Quarterbore

Blackhawk
Joined
Mar 9, 2008
Messages
904
Location
Valley Forge PA
I would love to know more about those REAL bullets too. I wish they were legal for deer here in PA as we have an early muzzle loader season when we can use percussion or inline muzzle loaders and .45 is the minimum for a rifle and .50 is required for a handgun so I can't hunt deer or other big game with it but it sure looks like a bullet with the right powder would be quite capable of getting the job done. Still, unless I convert it to a .50 I guess I am SOL!

I wonder if anybody makes a .50 Cal T/C Contender pistol inline :idea:
 

lovesrugers

Bearcat
Joined
Mar 17, 2005
Messages
69
Doc, yep I cast those bullets my self. The alloy I use is pretty much pure lead with a few wheel weights thrown in to add some tin content. When I do everything right I can get them to drop from the mould with the top 2 driving bands at .467-.471" The REAL bullets in the picture above were actually run through a Lee .457" push through sizer. You can see the effects of this on the upper driving bands. It makes a flat area instead of a sharp edged driving band. Since doing that batch of bullets I have found it is just easier to let the Old Army's cylinder size the bullet as it is seated. This eliminates the step of running them through the sizing die.

Currently my only problem with this bullet is that with heavy loads it will jump forward. I have been trying different ideas to alleviate this problem but have yet to come up with a really good solution. So far making sure I only use the largest sized bullets seems to eliminate most of the jumping problems but occasionally one still will jump forward.

Jerry
 

Doc Thornton

Bearcat
Joined
Mar 2, 2009
Messages
71
Location
Canal Fulton, Ohio
Jerry Lovesrugers, Thanks for the response. I can see now that the
REAL bullet on the right shows the flat edge on sized upper 2 bands
(better than the one on the left). I just ordered a mould by Lee (#90384)
which might be the same conical that you show and give data for.
It is listed as 220 grains in the advertisement and as being .456 in diameter as drops from the mould.

How is the accuracy of the conicals compared to the balls? It seems
that many folks report better acccuracy with the ball. I am also a fan
of 777 like yourself. Keep up the good reporting I am sure that it is
appreciated by many like myself. Doc T
 

lovesrugers

Bearcat
Joined
Mar 17, 2005
Messages
69
Doc, so far I have gotten better accuracy from the round balls. I am slowly closing the gap though. I think the problem is getting the conicals to seat completely straight. When using the ram rod attached to the revolver I had some problems accomplishing this. I now use a loading jig that holds the cylinder and allows me to seat various projectiles more or less completely straight.

As to the other bullet yes that is the Lee #90384. I forgot it is advertised as a 220 grain bullet. From my alloy it is actually much closer to 230 grains. It does cast out at .456 or larger for me. I don't bother to size it either, I just let the cylinder do it.

Jerry
 

lovesrugers

Bearcat
Joined
Mar 17, 2005
Messages
69
Here are some pictures of targets shot by my Old Army. First picture is from a few weeks ago. It is of two targets shot with the 220 grain bullet. The target on the left was a charge of 35 gr 777. The target on the right used 30 grains of 777. There are 6 holes on each target. I shot these at 15 yards off hand. Usually I like to shot at 25 yards or more but on this range day the target stands were frozen into the ground. The temp was 12 deg! It was not a day that I have done my best shooting. Not to mention handling percussion caps with frozen fingers is a real pain. The next picture is a round ball load. I don't remember the range I shot it but I do believe the charge was 35 grs of 777. The final picture is the cylinder loader I picked up to ease loading different projectiles into the cylinder.
Jerry
OldArmy5.jpg


PICT0269.jpg


cylinderloaderLarge.jpg
 

Doc Thornton

Bearcat
Joined
Mar 2, 2009
Messages
71
Location
Canal Fulton, Ohio
Jerry, I can see that I am going to have to keep a look out for your
posts on this forum. The info and photos that you are sharing are good
stuff and appreciated. Nice targets for being shot on a very cold day!
I am sure that the cold affected the performance of the 777 in one way
or another.

I live in Ohio and the weather here today is snowy and cold. Really does
not do much for range work. I am trying to convince my wife and child
to move to southern Alabama.

Doc Thornton aka Den-Bob Thornton (my new Alabama name)
 
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