questions on cylinder reaming.....

[RUFFBIRD]

Hi Folks,...

i purchaced a reamer (.4525) & the pilot pack from brownell's to ream my 3 ruger 45's & thought i might ask a few questions of you guy's that have done yours.

1'st,... can this operation be done by holding the cylinder by hand, or should it be clamped in a vice or do i need to make a jig of some sort to hold it?

2'nd,...would this reamer also cut the acp cylinder?

any experiences & tips would be greatly appreciated. hopefuly this will help to tighten up the groups a bit....

thanks a bunch!

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Ruffbird.

A true American, just happen to live north of the forty ninth. "GOD BLESS AMERICA"

[This message has been edited by RUFFBIRD (edited 05-09-2007).]

 

[J Miller]

Iowegan,

Thanks for this answer. I've often wondered the exact same things RUFFBIRD asked. Now I know. You just made a complicated thing very simple.

Thanks

Joe

 

[cas6969]

Simple TIPS:

Hold them in your hand and you'll have a better feel for what's going on should it start to bind.


Take an unsized case and cut the front portion of it off. Slide this over the reamer and insert it into the rear of chamber when you ream. It will keep you more centered in the chamber. Even with a tight fitting pilot bushing, the tail can wobble.


You will do a better smoother job going all the way through in a forward direction. Finish cutting and push the reamer all the way through, rather than cutting and pulling the reamer back out. Of course how much of a pain that is to do depends on what tool you're using to hold the reamer. If you're using a regular T-handle tap holder with a three jaw chuck that's probably going to be a real pain in the butt to do. SO... just be sure you clean the reamer off well before you withdraw it from the cylinder. Go easy and straight.



[This message has been edited by cas6969 (edited 05-09-2007).]

 

[RUFFBIRD]

GREAT INFO,...i'm so glad i asked. the reamer is the manson one & i shoot lead only in my .45's. with all your help i'm sure i can do a good job now...

as always Iowegan you have a way with words that makes your explanations very easy to understand,....thankyou sir!

cas6969,... i like that little tid-bit about cutting the front half of a piece of brass to steady the other end of the reamer,...i would have never thought of that! thankyou as well!

gotta love this forum,....we are fortunate, right Joe?

can't wait to get that chamfer kit...

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Ruffbird.

A true American, just happen to live north of the forty ninth. "GOD BLESS AMERICA"

[This message has been edited by RUFFBIRD (edited 05-09-2007).]

 

[RUFFBIRD]

i'm going to be ordering the basic kit with the 11 degree cutter. you recomended this awhile back & i wrote the info down so i wouldn't forget....

thanks again for all your help!

------------------
Ruffbird.

A true American, just happen to live north of the forty ninth. "GOD BLESS AMERICA"

 

[tomcatt51]

Am I missing something here? I thought Rugers had forcing cones that were <11 deg. I've never had a .45, are they steeper? Tom

[This message has been edited by tomcatt51 (edited 05-10-2007).]

[This message has been edited by tomcatt51 (edited 05-10-2007).]

 

[sixshooter_45]

I'm getting ready to purchase the reamer and pilots from Brownells myself.

Good info., thanks all.

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[This message has been edited by sixshooter_45 (edited 05-10-2007).]

 

[tomcatt51]

Thanks Iowegan, My point being that you're not going to casually recut your forcing cone to 11 deg without setting the barrel back. Tom

 

[flatgate]

I dunno tomcatt51, many, many, many folks have......

flatgate

 

[tomcatt51]

Flatgate,

If you don't set the barrel back, doesn't your forcing cone end up being awfully big?

Tom

 

[RUFFBIRD]

the way i understand it, using the 11 degree cutter will only elongate it, making for a more gentle entry into the rifling. i would imagine there are instructions with the kit which explains how far to ream so you don't cut too far making the cone bigger.

it's also another way of cleaning the lead build-up out of it, & perhaps the groups a bit tighter....

if this happens, i'll have 2 things to brag about to mrs ruffbird, 1'st how good of a shot i am, & 2'nd how good my gunsmithing skills make my gun shoot.

i can hear her now, "oh here we go again..."

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Ruffbird.

A true American, just happen to live north of the forty ninth. "GOD BLESS AMERICA"

[This message has been edited by RUFFBIRD (edited 05-11-2007).]

 

[tomcatt51]

Ruffbird,

You can't "elongate" an 8 deg forcing cone with an 11 deg cutter without substantially increasing the entry diameter. This will become abundantly clear with the first turn of the cutter.

I'm just wondering if I'm obsessing or if the entry diameter isn't as important as I think.

Tom

 

[Pinecone]

Tomcatt, We're not talking inches here, just "degrees". Fractions of an inch. The idea is to cut down on lead spitting and to give the "bullet" a better chance of aligning the cylinder with the bore. As Iowegan mentioned earlier, the "forcing" cone is just that. It allows the bullet to "force" the cylinder into alignment with the bore. There is an "instant" of time where the bullet is both in the "cylinder throat" and the "forcing cone" forcing this alignment. Less lead spitting and better accuracy, everything else being copesetic! There is no "gaping" difference between 5, 8 or 11 degrees. Hope this clarifies things for you ...............Dick

[This message has been edited by Pinecone (edited 05-11-2007).]

[This message has been edited by Pinecone (edited 05-11-2007).]

 

[RUFFBIRD]

tomcatt51,...i disagree with you....

perhaps we need Iowegan or cas6969 here to clear this up.....

like Flatgate stated many folks are doing it,....& with good results, i'm sure...

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Ruffbird.

A true American, just happen to live north of the forty ninth. "GOD BLESS AMERICA"

[This message has been edited by RUFFBIRD (edited 05-11-2007).]

 

[tomcatt51]

OK Guys,

I got into this discussion because I have a new SBHH in.44 mag that appears to have a little machining glitch where the forcing cone ends (blends into the grooves and lands).

I was going to cut a 7 1/2 deg lap to smooth this area without removing any material at the forcing cone entry.

If I use an 11 deg cutter and go in .030" deeper to clean this area, the forcing cone diameter will increase ~.020". Going from .463 to ~.483. In other words going from ~.030" over bullet dimeter to ~.050" over. That's not something you measure with a yardstick, but a pretty big change.

I've always understood that the best forcing cone is the smallest your guns barrel/cylinder alignment will tolerate.

11 deg forcing cones come from an era where 18 deg cones were the norm.

So back to my question. How big is too big. There are forcing cone guages but their sizes seem to be a secret.

Tom

[This message has been edited by tomcatt51 (edited 05-11-2007).]

 

[J Miller]

Tom,

Go to this thread: http://forums.handloads.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=10747&KW=460
and read down to the bottom of my post. I included two pics of my Ruger BH .45Colt's forcing cone. A before pic and an after pic. I explained about how and why I did it, and gave credit to Iowegan who tutored me in the work.

The pics clearly show the forcing cone was not opened up excessivly when I ran the 11* chamfering cutter into it.

Joe

 

[tomcatt51]

"the way i understand it, using the 11 degree cutter will only elongate it, making for a more gentle entry into the rifling"

"The third mission is what RUFFBIRD stated. The smoother and less abrupt cone will allow a better transition from the cylinder throat to the bore. As such, nearly all revolvers will shoot WCs or SWCs much better with a 11 degree chamfered cone."

I think this is where we get crossways. I don't consider an 11 deg FC to be smoother ,less abrupt and gentler than an 8 deg FC.

If you recut an 8 deg FC with an 11 deg cutter your FC diameter at the barrel face will be larger. I prefer not to make them any larger than necessary.

I agree that if you have lousy barrel/cylinder alignment you need a bigger forcing cone.

I thought "chamfering" a FC was breaking the edge at the barrel face as can be seen in J Millers very nice pictures of his .45.

My .44 has very good barrel/cyl alignment but the FC was apparently cut with a dull or damaged cutter. This afternoon I lapped it with Clover 1-A (320 grit) and a slightly less than 8 deg lap. It cleaned up very nicely taking no metal off at the barrel face, but smoothing the FC to rifling transition. A cleaning patch no longer hangs up on it's way thru. I'll see if it shoots any different next week. This weekend is IPSC.

Tom

 

[RUFFBIRD]

very good information in this thread folks,...i'm going to print it!

many thanks to ALL who responded, i/we have learned a great deal....

------------------
Ruffbird.

A true American, just happen to live north of the forty ninth. "GOD BLESS AMERICA"

 

[fjlee]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face=" Verdana">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by tomcatt51:
<B>"

My .44 has very good barrel/cyl alignment but the FC was apparently cut with a dull or damaged cutter. This afternoon I lapped it with Clover 1-A (320 grit) and a slightly less than 8 deg lap. It cleaned up very nicely taking no metal off at the barrel face, but smoothing the FC to rifling transition.
Tom</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


Tomcatt51...interesting topic. You say that you lapped a forcing cone. Based upon what you previously said, I think you made your own lap. So how did you determine the angle to make your lap? I assume that you made a brass lap in a lathe. Was there some trial and error involved in getting the angle of the lap identical to the angle of the FC, so that you were getting full even contact between the lap and the FC surface?

Did you "finish lap" with a grit finer than 320?
fjlee

 

[tomcatt51]

Hi FJ,

I used one of Brownells 5 degree laps and recut the angle. Pure trial and error. I cut marginally lesser taper than the FC so it would cut at the rifling/FC juncture but basically take nothing at the barrel face.

The lap is sacrifical during the process, so you lap a little, dress the lap, (holding a flat file against it will do), lap again. It's a fairly easy process, and you can adjust the lap angle as you dress it. Don't pull hard on the lap handle. Just rotate gently and let the compound work.

320 grit left a smooth but matte appearing finish. Don't use coarser as you can have problems creating little ridges in the surface finnish. You can go finer but I'm not sure you gain anything.

Hope this helps, Tom

[This message has been edited by tomcatt51 (edited 05-12-2007).]