Questions about H110 and forcing cone erosion-UPDATE

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63November

Single-Sixer
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Oct 20, 2003
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249
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Alaska (63 North, 162 West)
I've run over 10 pounds of H110 and W 296 through my 45 Blackhawk. As near as I can tell, the only "spitting" she's doing is the 320 grain chunks of "spit" that come out the hole in front. 'Course, I don't sweat a bit of wear as long as everything works as it should.
 

J Miller

Blackhawk
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Not in IL anymore ... :)
Well here is an update:

I am in the process of loading another batch of these bullets with some changes.
CCI 350 primers instead of the WLR
Using my tighter RCBS carbide sizer rather than the Lyman
Using my much tighter RCBS expander rather than the Lyman
And upping the charge from 21.5 to 22.0 grains of H110.

But here's the problem.

I did some measuring and even if I seat that bullet to the upper crimp groove which will seat it .065" deeper, there is almost an 1/8" gap between the bottom of the bullet and the powder.

Meaning my previous loads at 21.5grs has even more gap at around 3/16" ±.

I can't seat this bullet any deeper because if I do it will be seated past the curve of the bullet and I won't be able to put a crimp on it.

Now what?

Perhaps I should just fertilize the yard with the H110 and use black powder like Elmer Keith did. :p :twisted:

Any suggestions at this point?

Joe
 

Bucks Owin

Hunter
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J Miller said:
I can't seat this bullet any deeper because if I do it will be seated past the curve of the bullet and I won't be able to put a crimp on it.
Now what?

Perhaps I should just fertilize the yard with the H110 and use black powder like Elmer Keith did. :p :twisted:

Any suggestions at this point?

Joe

Some bullets with no crimp groove can be crimped on the ogive. ("curve of the bullet"). The 454190 comes to mind. However, be aware that deeper than recommended seating of bullets raises pressure too. Sometimes dramatically. :shock: http://www.customsixguns.com/writings/high_pressure_loads.htm
H110 doesn't "have" to be compressed if that is what you're attempting, and 22 grs under a 300 gr bullet is plenty stout so be careful of seating too deep...
Before you spread that 110 in the garden, please consider sending it to me. I'll be glad to reimburse you for the postage! :wink:

(BTW, Elmer nearly lost a finger using heavy compressed charges of BP with a deep seated heavy bullet, so don't go that route! :lol: )
 

tek4260

Buckeye
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carroll county ms
Some here will tell you that 24.0 gr with that bullet wouldn't be out of line. All I can say is I use more than 22.0 with a 325 so you could step it up a bit if you want to IMHO.
 

Bucks Owin

Hunter
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tek4260 said:
Some here will tell you that 24.0 gr with that bullet wouldn't be out of line. All I can say is I use more than 22.0 with a 325 so you could step it up a bit if you want to IMHO.
Barn burner for sure, even for Linebaugh! Hang on tight.... :wink: :D (You got rogue buffalo in your garden amigo? :lol: )
 

tek4260

Buckeye
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I had been shooting some factory 44 mag 240's one day for the only acceptable reason to shoot factory loads.... to get some brass for my loads. I switched to my 45 loaded with the 325's and forgot I wasn't shooting a factory 44!! The revolver came back and knocked my hat off my head. No blood so all was well. :lol:
 

J Miller

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I'm stopping at 22 grs. Just want a good stomper load for my rifles. I have shot the 21.5gr load in my OM BH and it'was noticeably uncomfortable.

OK, so I do thing I'll just seat 'em deep to crimp on the top grove. This will reduce the air gap. Should be interesting.

I won't go over this in my .45 Colts. Anything heavier and I might as well go buy a 45-70.

No critters in the garden, but thinking on the future.

Joe
 

J Miller

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Oh, and the only reason Keith blew off a chunk of his thumb is a bad balloon head case failed and blew off the loading gate.
With modern cases that wouldn't be a problem.

Just a mess.

Joe
 

Bucks Owin

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J Miller said:
Oh, and the only reason Keith blew off a chunk of his thumb is a bad balloon head case failed and blew off the loading gate.
With modern cases that wouldn't be a problem.

Just a mess.

Joe

I expect that during the depression he didn't want to toss that more than likely corroded old BP folded head case....Bet he was more careful after that! Hard to buy new digits... :shock: :lol: Seriously, one isn't allowed too many mistakes when handloading... :? BTW, what kind of rifle?
 

Bucks Owin

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tek4260 said:
I had been shooting some factory 44 mag 240's one day for the only acceptable reason to shoot factory loads.... to get some brass for my loads. I switched to my 45 loaded with the 325's and forgot I wasn't shooting a factory 44!! The revolver came back and knocked my hat off my head. No blood so all was well. :lol:
I bet! :lol: Yeah, those Linebaugh style .45's really snort and beller! I generally get whacked on the middle finger whenever attention lapses.... :roll:
 

J Miller

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Bucks Owin said:
J Miller said:
Oh, and the only reason Keith blew off a chunk of his thumb is a bad balloon head case failed and blew off the loading gate.
With modern cases that wouldn't be a problem.

Just a mess.

Joe

I expect that during the depression he didn't want to toss that more than likely corroded old BP folded head case....Bet he was more careful after that! Hard to buy new digits... :shock: :lol: Seriously, one isn't allowed too many mistakes when handloading... :? BTW, what kind of rifle?

I don't know the exact date, but the solid head cases came out in the mid to late 30s and were phased in over the years.
I'm always looking for the balloon head cases. I guess I'm a glutton for the odd stuff.

As for buying new digits it's not only hard, but painful too.

I've got two .45 Colt lever guns; a Winchester 94AE Trapper and a Marlin 1894 Cowboy.

Joe
 

Bucks Owin

Hunter
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J Miller said:
I'm always looking for the balloon head cases. I guess I'm a glutton for the odd stuff.

As for buying new digits it's not only hard, but painful too.



Joe

You sound as if you've had experience in that area Joe. I know of a local carpenter who lost a thumb to a saw accident years ago. He was also a hang gliding enthusiast who needed his grip. Doctor removed a big toe and grafted it onto his hand! Poor guy later died in a hang glide accident though....

You've probably seen it already, but Linebaugh has a few thoughts regarding high pressure .45 loads in that AE Winnie: "Another trend I have seen lately is the loading up of the new Rifles being chambered for the .45 Colt. Namely the Winchester 94 angle eject. The same writers that are now loading the rifles to a before unheard of pressure level of 40,000 CUP in this caliber are the same ones that belittle and talk down the .45 Colt in a sixgun. Does the weak case that limits the Sixguns abilities suddenly transform into a magical wonderall of magnum strength when chambered in one of these lever action wonders? I find their investigation of the facts at hand less than complete. I have rebarreled a few 94s in .45 Colt that had chambers so oversize than factory ammo would split cases and separate heads upon the first firing. Factory ammo is loaded to around 13,000 CUP even though the industry standard is 15,900 CUP. Personally I prefer shooting my heavy loads in well made sixguns rather than the current trend of rifles out there chambered in .45 Colt."

Old stuff....Me too. One of my favorite smokepoles is what I call my "hightoned nostaglia rifle". It's a 1935 Win M-54 .270 with a Buehler safety to clear a Weaver 440 equipped with a "Tackhole Lee" dot reticule. In '35 it would have been the "cutting edge" with a recent and somewhat controversial cartridge and newfangled sighting system. :lol: Have rebedded in it's refinished and nicely figured walnut, and plan to rechecker too once I get a little more practice at it. I've pondered cutting the barrel to 22", but it groups under 1.5" when I can manage it's "not great" trigger and "less than crystal clear" sight picture, and gets an honest 3100 fps with 130 gr without flattening primers.. Guess I'll leave well enough alone... :wink: Ain't firearms a great hobby?.... :D
Anyway, getting off topic and rambling as usual... :roll: Best regards, Dennis
 

Hammerdown77

Blackhawk
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886
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North Alabama
The only split .45 Colt case I've ever had was in my Rossi 92 lever action. At least I think that's what split it. Found it after the fact so I'm not positive. The chamber in that rifle is oversized, as is typical in .45 Colt rifles, and the fired brass coming out of that rifle is easy to differentiate from that coming out of my Blackhawk, as it's noticeably more "swollen".
 

J Miller

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Not in IL anymore ... :)
Hammerdown77 said:
The only split .45 Colt case I've ever had was in my Rossi 92 lever action. At least I think that's what split it. Found it after the fact so I'm not positive. The chamber in that rifle is oversized, as is typical in .45 Colt rifles, and the fired brass coming out of that rifle is easy to differentiate from that coming out of my Blackhawk, as it's noticeably more "swollen".

If the brass was split lengthwise of the case, say from case mouth to web, then it was a defective case. I've had this happen with both Remington and Winchester standard pressure factory loads in every one of my .45 Colts except my Uberti Cattleman.
It's just an occasional bad case. If it happens consistently then you have a bad chamber.
Like your rifle my Rossi had a generous chamber, but no more so than the Win and the Marlin I have now.

Joe
 

FergusonTO35

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Boonesborough, KY
Hey guys, do the powders you've been talking about tend to cause problems in the Marlin 1894 .357 carbine? I've put hundreds of rounds, both factory and reloaded through mine with no problems, however I've never tried 2400, Lil' Gun, or H110. These seem to be the preferred powders for getting the most out of the .357 carbine.
 

J Miller

Blackhawk
Joined
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Messages
977
Location
Not in IL anymore ... :)
Hammerdown77 said:
It was a Remington case, split lengthwise.
Defective case.

FergusonTO35 said:
Hey guys, do the powders you've been talking about tend to cause problems in the Marlin 1894 .357 carbine? I've put hundreds of rounds, both factory and reloaded through mine with no problems, however I've never tried 2400, Lil' Gun, or H110. These seem to be the preferred powders for getting the most out of the .357 carbine.
I've never used Lil'Gun and only started using H110, but I do know from experience that 2400 is an excellent powder in the .357 regardless of what you shoot it from. I shot a lot of it from the Marlin 1894CS I had.

Joe
 

454PB

Bearcat
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Messages
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Location
Helena, Mt. USA
The slower powders you've mentioned work very well in the Marlin with it's longer barrel.

In my 1894, I use more Bluedot than any other powder, because I consider it a "plinker". If you're looking for the highest velocities for .357 magnum rifle, Lil'Gun or H-110/WW296 should be the powders for you.
 

Hammerdown77

Blackhawk
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Messages
886
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North Alabama
FergusonTO35 said:
Hey guys, do the powders you've been talking about tend to cause problems in the Marlin 1894 .357 carbine? I've put hundreds of rounds, both factory and reloaded through mine with no problems, however I've never tried 2400, Lil' Gun, or H110. These seem to be the preferred powders for getting the most out of the .357 carbine.

Don't have a .357 carbine, but in that Rossi 92 .45 Colt with a 20" barrel, I'm getting 1550 fps with a 300 grain lead .45 caliber bullet using H-110. I reckon that will take down anything I'd be brave enough to shoot at.

H-110 seems to do real well in pistol caliber rifles.
 

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