Push/Pull Method

[TruthNotRelative]

Anyone here utilize the "Push/Pull" method while pistol shooting with a two handed grip?

For those who may not know, the "Push/Pull" method involves a "normal" two handed grip while pushing forward with the "dominate" and pulling back with the "weak hand".

 

[ArmedinAZ]

What you describe is an important part of most any 2 handed grip. Officially it's called isometric tension:

Isometric Tension. The firer raises his arms to a firing position and applies isometric tension. This is commonly known as the push-pull method for maintaining weapon stability. Isometric tension is when the firer applies forward pressure with the firing hand and pulls rearward with the nonfiring hand with equal pressure. This creates an isometric force but never so much to cause the firer to tremble. This steadies the weapon and reduces barrel rise from recoil. The supporting arm is bent with the elbow pulled downward. The firing arm is fully extended with the elbow and wrist locked. The firer must experiment to find the right amount of isometric tension to apply.

 

[Cheesewhiz]

I shoot high speed silhouettes alot, I use this technique during those sessions. It takes quite a bit of practice with the gun and yourself to get good at it. I would recommend someone get comfortable with firing their gun in a standard manner to gain confidence before trying it.

This is maybe just me but I can't shoot worth a crap doing the same with a SA revolver.

 

[NMCB3]

Thats the way I was taught and have always done it. I`ve tried other ways but they just don't seem as natural to me.

 

[Cholo]

I've always shot a handgun that way too. It works for me whether SA or DA.

Cheesewhiz, by "standard manner" do you mean just cupping your off hand in your shooting hand?

 

[Mike J]

It seems to help me.

 

[Ale-8(1)]

Absolutely. It quickly becomes habit and I don't even think about it.

And this from a guy who previously shot the classic one-handed "Bullseye" form for many years.

 

[Cheesewhiz]

Cheesewhiz, by "standard manner" do you mean just cupping your off hand in your shooting hand?

Yes, although I switched to a half cup, moving my weak hand further up the grip, a long time ago. This is how I shoot my single action revolvers best.

I find that using the push/pull with my semi-auto pistols helps with muzzle flip and trigger slap and it is absolutely needed when shooting at higher speeds.

 

[Edirty692]

Thanks guys I'll have to try it. I need a little help shooting my SR9. Trying
to get use to the striker-fied design. Seems like I shoot a little down & a little to the left. Hopefully this will help me.

 

[gramps]

Wow, I always used the push/pull for two handed firing(cause I was taught that way I guess).
gramps

 

[Ale-8(1)]

Re-reading some of Elmer Keith's works recently, I note that he recommended the "cup and saucer" approach whenever possible for game shots . . . that is, holding the gun in your primary hand, and resting that in the palm of your off hand, merely as support. He recommended not attempting to control recoil at all, just maintaining a secure grip to avoid dropping the gun.

Jeff Cooper, on the other hand (sorry), when developing his "modern technique", built on the Weaver grip in which the off hand wraps around and firmly grips the shooting hand, applying the "isometric tension" in an effort to control recoil to the extent of being able to get off quick follow-up shots, since Jeff was more oriented toward combat shooting.

The biggest mistake I see novices make in this regard is in applying a death grip that turns the knuckles white, almost assuring a pronounced tremble while aiming. Ya gotta hang onto it, but ya don't have to strangle the poor thing. Heavier-recoiling guns do require a somewhat more secure hold, but you pretty quickly discover just how much is necessary. No magic involved.

 

[ArmedinAZ]

Thanks guys I'll have to try it. I need a little help shooting my SR9. Trying
to get use to the striker-fied design. Seems like I shoot a little down & a little to the left. Hopefully this will help me.

Check this target out:

 

[Cheesewhiz]

Re-reading some of Elmer Keith's works recently, I note that he recommended the "cup and saucer" approach whenever possible for game shots . . . that is, holding the gun in your primary hand, and resting that in the palm of your off hand, merely as support. He recommended not attempting to control recoil at all, just maintaining a secure grip to avoid dropping the gun.

Jeff Cooper, on the other hand (sorry), when developing his "modern technique", built on the Weaver grip in which the off hand wraps around and firmly grips the shooting hand, applying the "isometric tension" in an effort to control recoil to the extent of being able to get off quick follow-up shots, since Jeff was more oriented toward combat shooting.

The biggest mistake I see novices make in this regard is in applying a death grip that turns the knuckles white, almost assuring a pronounced tremble while aiming. Ya gotta hang onto it, but ya don't have to strangle the poor thing. Heavier-recoiling guns do require a somewhat more secure hold, but you pretty quickly discover just how much is necessary. No magic involved.

..and that was my point and you said it far better than I did. I recommend that people learn the easiest way as possible and modify with experience.

 

[Ale-8(1)]

Oh, for sure. I instruct beginners on a limited basis. One of the things I make every effort to do is to expose them to the various "official" stances/grips, explain the theoretical advantages of each, and then help them determine what works best for them . . . even if the result may appear, um, "unique". Comfort and control are the goals, IMHO.

There is no "magic position" just as there is no "Magic bullet".

 

[Mike J]

Ale 8 there are those who teach the "crush grip" www.backwoodshome.com/articles2/ayoob85.html After reading about it in an Ayoob book my wife got me I tried it. When I do everything like he says I shoot much better. I need to spend more time practicing to get the whole muscle memory thing going however.

 

[Snake45]

Is there some other way to shoot a pistol 2-handed? I can't imagine doing otherwise.

 

[Ale-8(1)]

Mas Ayoob has taught the "crush grip" for a loooong time. I am certainly not in any position to disagree with him. All I'll say along those lines is that when starting out with a complete novice I have found it pays off to just get them into a position and grip that works for them and does not grossly violate any of the accepted, successful methods of "gunology". Ayoob's "In the Gravest Extreme" should be required reading for all shooters, and I have given away countless copies over the years.

I strongly recommend to those who are so inclined that they take "graduate courses" from one or more of the pros after I get them started off on the right foot. Most of my "pupils" are satisfied with being able to safely handle, shoot, and maintain their guns, and that's where I attempt to bring them in informal training sessions.

I am NRA-certified in handgun, rifle, and shotgun, and usually deal with those who are just interested in learning the basics in a safe manner. Many are lady friends of my wife's. A calm, relaxed Saturday/Sunday spent in my kitchen and backyard will suffice for most of these folks, with as much follow-up as they desire and the weather will allow. I never charge for any of this. After all, it's time spent related to shooting, and I consider that to always be time well spent.

 

[gatorhugger]

I have permanently injured my right(dominant) arm it seems.
Now I get arm shakes pretty badly when shooting.
For decades I shot a modified weaver, now that ain't working out so well.
My right arm shakes too much.
My left arm is still good, so I am thinking of going to a more Bent forward Isoceles stance with both arms locked out straight. Trying to get more support.
It's getting frustrating.
So sometimes the "best" stance is just what you can actually employ.
And I have never pushed/ pulled, it sounds great I guess, but I was never that coordinated to have two arms working against each other, one pulling back, one pushing forward.

 

[Ale-8(1)]

"So sometimes the "best" stance is just what you can actually employ."

Absolutely, 'gator.

Have you considered switching to shooting left-handed? I have a friend who was a "rightie" but injured that hand. He switched hands while recovering and stayed that way. He thinks he now shoots better than he originally did from the "right" side.

You have my sympathy.

 

[Snake45]

And I have never pushed/ pulled, it sounds great I guess, but I was never that coordinated to have two arms working against each other, one pulling back, one pushing forward.

I find that the push-pull doesn't really come from the arms, but from the shoulders, as if you were trying to torque your whole torso toward the non-shooting side.