There's no difference between progressive and auto-indexing other than manual indexing. It's easier to clear a station of a error with a manual indexer. Manual indexing also allows you to check each station for errors before moving to the next station. Auto indexing does not.
Progessive Presses
- Thread starter Yosemite Sam
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WyoGunner
Single-Sixer
For the money, I think the Hornady LNL is your best choice. I currently own one, but I have loaded 1000s of rounds on an RCBS piggy back and in my opinion, the Hornady addressed many of the short comings of the RCBS (ie: round ejector, primer seating depth, and ease of changing calibers). With that being said, I think the RCBS powder drop is more accurate and consistent. I have on occasion had some pretty light charges produced by the Hornady. This was with Unique (extruded) powder though so I don't know how it performs with other types of powders.
I am willing to bet that the Dillon is a better press, but it better be for the cost. The Hornady is hard to beat for the price. I bought mine around Christmas and got 1000 free bullets and then ended up selling them for about $175 on the forum. After it was all said and done, I got the press for $235. (400-175+$10shipping= $235). Pretty hard to find a better deal than that. I have been very satisfied with my purchase.
I am willing to bet that the Dillon is a better press, but it better be for the cost. The Hornady is hard to beat for the price. I bought mine around Christmas and got 1000 free bullets and then ended up selling them for about $175 on the forum. After it was all said and done, I got the press for $235. (400-175+$10shipping= $235). Pretty hard to find a better deal than that. I have been very satisfied with my purchase.
gobe
Bearcat
Just recently bought a SA .45 Colt replica and decided that, if I was going to shoot it much, I'd better get into reloading to feed it. .45LC is hard to find around here and, if you do, it's expensive. Have loaded tens of thousands of 12 ga shotgun shells on a MEC Grabber over a few decades, but never reloaded brass cartridge ammo.
Did a lot of research on this and other sites ... lots of good info here, but before I could make up my mind a used Dillon 550 (not the B) fell into my lap. Got the setup DVD from Dillon along with the caliber conversion kit and dies for the .45LC and set it up. Had a reloader friend of mine come over for a 'sanity check' before I started cranking them out.
I am definitely impressed with the results from the Dillon! Same routine as the MEC Grabber. Where I used to put in a spent case and wad in the MEC, I now put in a spent cartridge and slug with the Dillon. Each pull of the handle renders a finished bullet.
BTW I ran the MEC factory for 8-1/2 years back in my misspent youth. Industrial punch presses can be set up for either manual or automatic progressive operation depending on whether an operator has to load something into one or more stations before each stroke or whether the machine moves the parts from station to station automatically. Generally speaking, for each stroke of the press a completed part is ejected. The process is 'progressive'. The method is either 'manual' or 'auto'. FWIW.
I got three caliber setups with the 550 and used the tool head from the .45ACP for my .45LC (had to change out the dies and get a caliber conversion kit.) Have .38Spl/.357Mag and 44 Spl setups mounted on the other tool heads, so will probably start reloading .38 Spl's for my SP-101 and SW 442.
Did I say that, so far, I'm well satisfied with my Dillon 550? Probably the only pistolover reloader I'll ever need. And it's fun to use.
Did a lot of research on this and other sites ... lots of good info here, but before I could make up my mind a used Dillon 550 (not the B) fell into my lap. Got the setup DVD from Dillon along with the caliber conversion kit and dies for the .45LC and set it up. Had a reloader friend of mine come over for a 'sanity check' before I started cranking them out.
I am definitely impressed with the results from the Dillon! Same routine as the MEC Grabber. Where I used to put in a spent case and wad in the MEC, I now put in a spent cartridge and slug with the Dillon. Each pull of the handle renders a finished bullet.
BTW I ran the MEC factory for 8-1/2 years back in my misspent youth. Industrial punch presses can be set up for either manual or automatic progressive operation depending on whether an operator has to load something into one or more stations before each stroke or whether the machine moves the parts from station to station automatically. Generally speaking, for each stroke of the press a completed part is ejected. The process is 'progressive'. The method is either 'manual' or 'auto'. FWIW.
I got three caliber setups with the 550 and used the tool head from the .45ACP for my .45LC (had to change out the dies and get a caliber conversion kit.) Have .38Spl/.357Mag and 44 Spl setups mounted on the other tool heads, so will probably start reloading .38 Spl's for my SP-101 and SW 442.
Did I say that, so far, I'm well satisfied with my Dillon 550? Probably the only pistolover reloader I'll ever need. And it's fun to use.
My brother-in-law and I started reloading on a Dillon Square Deal set up in 9mm. It was so easy to get running, and every round worked perfectly. That was fine since he only loaded for pistol calibers.
I started on a single stage Hornady because I wanted to load for rifle rounds, too, and couldn't afford a progressive at the time. I think I got that press for $36 or $39 on a close out at a sporting goods store, and I still have it. I use the single stage whenever I load up just a few rounds, or when I'm working up new loads.
Then for my birthday one year, a GF got me a Dillon 550B. Man, its slick. It came in real handy when I was loading up 9mm or 45 auto for range practice or IPSC matches. I even loaded 223 Remington up in bulk with it... but found trim-to length on cases was much more critical in bottle-neck rifle cartridges.
I can't comment on the other progressive loaders because I've never used them. But I've had good service from the Dillon Square Deal B and 550B and recommend them highly.
I started on a single stage Hornady because I wanted to load for rifle rounds, too, and couldn't afford a progressive at the time. I think I got that press for $36 or $39 on a close out at a sporting goods store, and I still have it. I use the single stage whenever I load up just a few rounds, or when I'm working up new loads.
Then for my birthday one year, a GF got me a Dillon 550B. Man, its slick. It came in real handy when I was loading up 9mm or 45 auto for range practice or IPSC matches. I even loaded 223 Remington up in bulk with it... but found trim-to length on cases was much more critical in bottle-neck rifle cartridges.
I can't comment on the other progressive loaders because I've never used them. But I've had good service from the Dillon Square Deal B and 550B and recommend them highly.
Yosemite Sam
Hunter
Interesting question and responses. I didn't realize the 550B was manual index. FWIW, as long as it does multiple operations at once I'd consider it "progressive". OTOH, my Lee Turret auto-indexes, but only does one thing at a time. So many different approaches.revhigh":3cdym4tj said:
I'm thinking the LNL might suit my needs better at this time, since I do so many calibers. I will generally want to run 1-200 of one caliber, then switch to another, and it appears the LNL is faster and more flexible in this area.
Is it possible to disable the auto-index on the Hornady? I still want to do a couple of my rifle rounds in "single stage" mode, or at least throw/weigh powder charges by hand. Can I do that on an LNL?
Though the above discussion makes me ask: How quickly (and cheaply) can you change calibers on a 550B?
-- Sam
Yosemite Sam":1bw2rjpj said:
Sam, I think you'll find that you'll run more than 1-200 with the LNL once you get going. It just makes sense to do that once you're set up, especially if you have to change the primer cup. Just changing the dies is 2 minutes with the quick change LNL AP bushings. I have to screw mine in and out with my older Projector. I load with a buddy, and we do about 1200 rounds of a given pistol caliber in about 3 hours with my Hornady Projector, the precursor to the LNL AP.
In my Projector's life, I'm positive I've reloaded at least 200,000 rounds. Just last year, it got out of time, and I called Hornady. They said send it in, and we'll upgrade it to current specs, replace anything worn out, re-time it, and return it to you. I said WOW, how much will that cost ??? The response ... nothing sir ... that's a service we provide with our lifetime warranty ... no questions asked ... just like the blue presses. It cost me $22 to send it back. They returned it about 3 weeks later, working perfectly, timed precisely, and had replaced about 15 parts, basically because there were upgraded parts available ... not because they had worn out ... all on a 20 year old press.
The LNL AP is pretty much the identical press to the Dillon 650, but at half the cost .... even less if you factor in the free bullets.
It is an awesome deal and an awesome press. The ram on the Hornady is about 2 inches in diameter. It looks like one of the hydraulic tubes on a backhoe. I am NOT kidding. Don't get me wrong, the Dillon is ALSO an awesome press ... but the Hornady does the same thing for a LOT less money.
No, you CANNOT disable the auto indexing of the LNL AP, not sure why you'd want to though.
REV
chaneyd":158t9kxr said:
Not sure where you got that definition, I've never seen it and I won't argue it.
Between putting the empty case on the shell plate, sitting the bullet on the flared case, and pulling the lever, I don't know why anyone would ALSO want to manually index the shell plate AS WELL ...
If you're going to get a Dillon ... at least get the 650 ... Not sure what they cost, but I know it's a helluva lot more than the LNL AP, and you don't get ANY free bullets to help offset the cost.
REV
Yosemite Sam
Hunter
Rev, thanks. More importantly (to me) than disabling the auto-index: Can you interrupt the auto powder drop, and charge the case by hand?
With some of my rifle rounds I like to weight each charge. Up till now I've reverted to single stage mode for these (hence the desire to disable auto-index), though I really don't have to. I do require the ability to bypass the auto powder feed. I see on the LNL (downloaded the manual) you can cycle the powder feed manually to check the charge, but it doesn't discuss non-automatic operation.
Related: What happens if you determine that a case got over or under charged, or something else went wrong (crooked bullet, upside down primer, etc)? Can you easily stop, correct a problem, and continue?
The Dillon base prices don't seem as bad as I thought, but they get expensive when you start getting into caliber change kits, tool heads, etc.
Thanks again for all the info. This is almost as much fun as researching which gun to buy next...
-- Sam
With some of my rifle rounds I like to weight each charge. Up till now I've reverted to single stage mode for these (hence the desire to disable auto-index), though I really don't have to. I do require the ability to bypass the auto powder feed. I see on the LNL (downloaded the manual) you can cycle the powder feed manually to check the charge, but it doesn't discuss non-automatic operation.
Related: What happens if you determine that a case got over or under charged, or something else went wrong (crooked bullet, upside down primer, etc)? Can you easily stop, correct a problem, and continue?
The Dillon base prices don't seem as bad as I thought, but they get expensive when you start getting into caliber change kits, tool heads, etc.
Thanks again for all the info. This is almost as much fun as researching which gun to buy next...
-- Sam
Arokcrwlr
Blackhawk
You can pull the case out at any stage. If you want to size, prime, flare and then pull the case to manually drop the charge you can do that - then pick back up with bullet seating and crimping.
revhigh":235hj0wy said:
Some people are just hard to convince. From Webster's dictionary:
pro·gres·sive (prə-grěs'ĭv)
adj. 1.Moving forward; advancing.
2.Proceeding in steps; continuing steadily by increments: progressive change.
Just about sums it up.
Greebe
Single-Sixer
I will put in another vote for the Dillan RL550B. I have one and it is a great press. Just be prepared to spend considerably more to get set up for each cartridge compared to a single stage press, as you have to buy the cartridge conversion kits as well.
I clocked myself at 500 rounds of finished .45ACP in less than an hour once.
Greebe
I clocked myself at 500 rounds of finished .45ACP in less than an hour once.
Greebe
Vecco
Single-Sixer
Dillon 650.. w/ powder check and case feed
chaneyd":20jb7t2i said:
It seems like this pretty much confirms MY idea of a progressive, which is NOT doing multiple things at the same time, but 'moving forward', or progressing, or 'proceeding in steps' .... NOT doing multiple operations at the same time, which is what you originally said, as highlighted above.
My idea of a progressive press is still 'moving forward', etc etc, but automatically.
REV
Yosemite Sam
Hunter
By the definition of "progressive" with regard to reloading presses, as I understand it, yes. As I said, my Lee Turret is not a progressive, but does have an auto-index feature. But please let's not let this topic devolve into an argument of semantics.chaneyd":250wkjd7 said:
FWIW, I'm leaning toward the Hornady LNL. The Dillons are real nice, obviously, but also considerably more money, and every time I turn around it seems there's another new multi-hundred dollar accessory you "need". Certainly not going to run out and get a new "tool head" at $250/pop for every caliber I want to load. No offense to the Boys in Blue, of course.
-- Sam
Greebe
Single-Sixer
I think some of you guys are mixing up a "turret press" with a "progressive press". The turret has multiple stations but only does one operation at a time. A progressive has multiple stations that do multiple things at the same time.
I.E.. the Dillan RL550 in one pull of the handle will size, deprime, prime, expand the mouth of the case, drop powder, seat a bullet, and crimp at the same time.
Also manually indexing does not add a single bit of time to the reloading process. I actually prefer the manual indexing machines myself, as it allows you more control of the process.
With the RL550 you pick up a case in your right hand and put it in the shell holder, while you are doing that you reach for a bullet with your left hand, after the case is loaded and the bullet is in your left hand you are rotating the shell holder and drop the bullet onto the case then pull the handle to operate the ram with the right hand. After you do a few rounds you get the hang of it and can move very fast.
Greebe
I.E.. the Dillan RL550 in one pull of the handle will size, deprime, prime, expand the mouth of the case, drop powder, seat a bullet, and crimp at the same time.
Also manually indexing does not add a single bit of time to the reloading process. I actually prefer the manual indexing machines myself, as it allows you more control of the process.
With the RL550 you pick up a case in your right hand and put it in the shell holder, while you are doing that you reach for a bullet with your left hand, after the case is loaded and the bullet is in your left hand you are rotating the shell holder and drop the bullet onto the case then pull the handle to operate the ram with the right hand. After you do a few rounds you get the hang of it and can move very fast.
Greebe
Greebe
Single-Sixer
Here is a link to a RL550B in operation. This guy is going at a good pace, but with practice you can go faster. I useually go a tad faster than he is, but I have loaded many many thousands of rounds on this press.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n72j7ngHIOo
Greebe
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n72j7ngHIOo
Greebe
Greebe
Single-Sixer
Yosemite Sam":28v9o6zh said:
Sam, besides dies, all you have to buy is a "caliber conversion kit" which for the RL550B runs $43 from Dillan. You can also buy an extra toolhead for each caliber if you want for $20, but it is not a requirement.
BTW, Dillan makes the best pistol dies bar-non. IMO
Here is a cross section of their carbide pistol dies:
Greebe
