Police shooting input...

[JackBull]

I find the Meriden video interesting. I was driving along a street in Meriden when the car in front of me stops in the middle of the road and then turns into a used car dealer, no blinker. I hit my horn. The driver then followed me to the next town, before he took off. This was mid-morning. At around midnight that evening we get a knock at the door from the local police, telling me that I had to call the Meriden police. The officer threatened me with arrest for honking my horn.

I also find it interesting that so many here support the poor or illegal behavior of the cops.

 

[blume357]

So, what's the solution here? I can actually see both sides of the issue with cops stepping over the line... But I can't in all honesty see a society with out them. Yes, I suspect we can do better at policing the police but like I and others have said, not only do I not want the job, I realize I could not do it. I've been known to have a short fuze and I guarantee you if I was a cop I'd be 'one of those'. Again, on the few occasions I've had with LEO's I showed them respect.... but on top of that I do my best to not look like some crazed hopped up over the edge hoodlum wanna be... part of the reason is I have to go and knock on people's front doors and they have to let me in their homes and I think first impressions matter.

As for JackBull's post above.... should should have pulled a Gomer Pile vs Barney on him and said if he want to come and arrest you then you will swear out a warrant for his arrest for piss poor driving.... which is the worst 'crime' honking one's horn or stopping in the middle of the road and then turning with no signal?

 

[kmoore]

What the videos show is that officers are held accountable and should be. My dept. fired people over my 39 years there for much less than seen on those (I didn't watch everyone). I wanted police body cams before they existed. When they came about, the complaints filed by lying citizens finally where easy to prove who was lying. It really changed the outcome to favor more cops than citizens who just hate the police and want to make money filing lawsuits against a government agency.

 

[blume357]

A year or so ago some local councilman for a small town here in S.C. got pulled over for going a little fast. He then went on line and everywhere saying how racist and bad the cop was for pulling him over for no good reason and how the cop was abusive to him. Then the police chief showed the body camera footage.... guess who was the ass wipe? Yep the guy pulled over, the cop was polite and professional way beyond the call of duty in my opinion.

 

[JackBull]

So, what's the solution here? I can actually see both sides of the issue with cops stepping over the line... But I can't in all honesty see a society with out them. Yes, I suspect we can do better at policing the police but like I and others have said, not only do I not want the job, I realize I could not do it. I've been known to have a short fuze and I guarantee you if I was a cop I'd be 'one of those'. Again, on the few occasions I've had with LEO's I showed them respect.... but on top of that I do my best to not look like some crazed hopped up over the edge hoodlum wanna be... part of the reason is I have to go and knock on people's front doors and they have to let me in their homes and I think first impressions matter.

As for JackBull's post above.... should should have pulled a Gomer Pile vs Barney on him and said if he want to come and arrest you then you will swear out a warrant for his arrest for piss poor driving.... which is the worst 'crime' honking one's horn or stopping in the middle of the road and then turning with no signal?

Change the us vs them mentality. I support the law and professional police.

 

[Bigbore5]

Some cops are really good and honest. Many are not. They tend too much towards the circling the wagon mentality when accusations are made rather than being open and having a thorough investigation with transparency and impartiality. The majority of the police at some point do abuse their power to some extent, but the vast majority do not go to any extreme as some of the examples shown here. They need stricter hiring standards and more actually impartial oversight.

 

[XUSNORDIE]

Some cops are really good and honest. Many are not. They tend too much towards the circling the wagon mentality when accusations are made rather than being open and having a thorough investigation with transparency and impartiality. The majority of the police at some point do abuse their power to some extent, but the vast majority do not go to any extreme as some of the examples shown here. They need stricter hiring standards and more actually impartial oversight.

MOST cops are good and honest. SOME are not.....a small fraction that get exploited by media and ACAB mentality types like some posting on this thread.

Stricter hiring? LEOs are leaving the job as fast as they can....sadly. They have been demonized and labeled (perfect example right in this thread), and defunded and let go....

Now there are illegal immigrants being hired as LE in some areas.......you want to see bad cops? you are about to.......it's a shame what has happened. You ACAB types are really going to see a bad cops now.....who can barely speak the English language and come from countries with no tolerance for certain things....you asked for it you got it. Don't cry.

 

[Watertender]

Now there are illegal immigrants being hired as LE in some areas.......you want to see bad cops? you are about to.......it's a shame what has happened. You ACAB types are really going to see a bad cops now.....who can barely speak the English language and come from countries with no tolerance for certain things....you asked for it you got it. Don't cry.

There is a police force here that hired a Burmese officer with great fanfare. They wasted their time and money and effort because the guy quit less than a month after he started. With all of the politically correct hiring practices and affirmative action it's a wonder that some departments can hire any effective officers at all.

A friend of mine took a police department exam and scored a 95% on it. He overheard 2 other people taking the exam discussing how to get on Comp as soon as possible. They were gleefully saying "IOD! That's for me"!(injured on duty)... His brother was an officer on the force he tested for and told him that both of the applicants he overheard were hired and went out on IOD Comp...

How can you expect to have good officers with crap like that happening?

 

[XUSNORDIE]

There is a police force here that hired a Burmese officer with great fanfare. They wasted their time and money and effort because the guy quit less than a month after he started. With all of the politically correct hiring practices and affirmative action it's a wonder that some departments can hire any effective officers at all.

A friend of mine took a police department exam and scored a 95% on it. He overheard 2 other people taking the exam discussing how to get on Comp as soon as possible. They were gleefully saying "IOD! That's for me"!(injured on duty)... His brother was an officer on the force he tested for and told him that both of the applicants he overheard were hired and went out on IOD Comp...

How can you expect to have good officers with crap like that happening?

The good ones are getting pushed out in many places and if being replaced at all, they are onboarding some very questionable recruits.

I've seen a ton of my good friends "retire". A lot of LEOs make ends meet with OT and secondary work. The OT is drying up. Departments are cutting back. A lot of them can't deal with the wokeness of County/City liberals interference and unqualified promotions due to, well you know the drill.....and just being judged as demons. Don't blame them for hanging up their boots.

Americas ACAB and DFTP types have cried and demonized enough.....they may not like what they've started.

 

[kmoore]

Some cops are really good and honest. Many are not. They tend too much towards the circling the wagon mentality when accusations are made rather than being open and having a thorough investigation with transparency and impartiality. The majority of the police at some point do abuse their power to some extent, but the vast majority do not go to any extreme as some of the examples shown here. They need stricter hiring standards and more actually impartial oversight.

I would like to read your data that backs up your opinions with facts. Is that what happened at a PD you worked at if so let us know. I suspect you are basing your opinions on news events not real life. Or maybe someone you knew may have said some of that, if so, was that based on something from many years ago. Although my daily experience was at 4 PDs in 39 years I worked with and had friends in many others. This is how I would make your statement. Based on real police work in the West.
There are a few bad apples, the majority are good hard working moral people. Circling the wagon to protect others ended years, decades ago. It's not worth oneself to lose a job over other's failures or illegal activities. It's better to report the abuse for your own career, the community and Department.
All major departments have police oversight, many have outside agencies including the DAs office or city/county council to do investigations on their officers. Few officers ever abuse their power, if so, they get fired or other disciplinary actions happen. Action taken depends on totality of the offense. No PD or government (city, county, state or federal) can afford lawsuits generated by such conduct. There needs to be stricter standards in hiring. Not hiring based on race/sex or sexual preferences. High moral standards are most important along with physical abilities.
Impartial oversight must be done by people who know the law and how it's applied. Retired cops or cops from other agencies, criminal and civil lawyers should also be considered. The average citizen doesn't have a real clue about laws or how there applied. Attending some real police training and learning laws should be a must before reviewing incidents about proper police conduct or not. Passing judgement on conduct based on watching the news or reading web stories is far to skewed in one way or another.

 

[JackBull]

I would like to read your data that backs up your opinions with facts. Is that what happened at a PD you worked at if so let us know. I suspect you are basing your opinions on news events not real life. Or maybe someone you knew may have said some of that, if so, was that based on something from many years ago. Although my daily experience was at 4 PDs in 39 years I worked with and had friends in many others. This is how I would make your statement. Based on real police work in the West.
There are a few bad apples, the majority are good hard working moral people. Circling the wagon to protect others ended years, decades ago. It's not worth oneself to lose a job over other's failures or illegal activities. It's better to report the abuse for your own career, the community and Department.
All major departments have police oversight, many have outside agencies including the DAs office or city/county council to do investigations on their officers. Few officers ever abuse their power, if so, they get fired or other disciplinary actions happen. Action taken depends on totality of the offense. No PD or government (city, county, state or federal) can afford lawsuits generated by such conduct. There needs to be stricter standards in hiring. Not hiring based on race/sex or sexual preferences. High moral standards are most important along with physical abilities.
Impartial oversight must be done by people who know the law and how it's applied. Retired cops or cops from other agencies, criminal and civil lawyers should also be considered. The average citizen doesn't have a real clue about laws or how there applied. Attending some real police training and learning laws should be a must before reviewing incidents about proper police conduct or not. Passing judgement on conduct based on watching the news or reading web stories is far to skewed in one way or another.

I find the leos in my town do not understand the law.
My neighbor constantly trespasses on my property, cutting my bushes, dumping lawn debris. The police refuse to do anything, however consistently make up something I did wrong.
I threw a twig on the property border and was threatened of being arrested for illegal dumping.
Another instance while discussing with leo how the neighbor was dumping on another neighbors property that neighbor stepped out of her home. When I called the neighbor over to discuss, the leo threatened to arrest me for inciting.
The leos from town lied about evidence in court during my trial. It was their evidence and they claimed it wasnt!
The neighbor was having a new roof installed early in morning, in violation of town noise ordinance. The leos tried to convince me that since the roofers were using "lawn tools" to remove shingles, they were not in violation of the ordinance.
I was told by 2 officers that they were "old school and do not have to be nice to people". And one of those officers is a trainer for new recruits.

I had to request a wellness check for a relative. The sheriff office in SC was totally professional and gave me the procedure that I had to follow in initiate the check with the PD in my town. The local dispatcher was rude and refused to follow the steps I was given. When she finally turned it over to an officer, he acknowledged the procedure was correct and initiated my request.
The former chief had all his windows in his car blacked out. He was known to be a drinker and the windows facilitated drinking behind the wheel.
I guess some departments are better than others.

 

[Hawk-in-Wi]

sounds about on par with what you can see anyday on the net but according to the LEOs on this site it never or hardy ever happens

 

[kmoore]

I find the leos in my town do not understand the law.
My neighbor constantly trespasses on my property, cutting my bushes, dumping lawn debris. The police refuse to do anything, however consistently make up something I did wrong.
I threw a twig on the property border and was threatened of being arrested for illegal dumping.
Another instance while discussing with leo how the neighbor was dumping on another neighbors property that neighbor stepped out of her home. When I called the neighbor over to discuss, the leo threatened to arrest me for inciting.

Both states you list as home, Wyoming and Montanna require POST training for all officers. Thats statewide basic and advanced training to be an officer. If they truly don't know the law or are lying about cases, I bet the POST training would like to know. They hold a heavy hand over if an officer is certified or not and that will and can be taken away for illegal behavior. Meaning the officer is at worse case out of the field unable to be a cop in that state. Some get probation, some get arrested especially for civil rights, assault or lying in court.
I don't know anything about your information, but I believe you believe it. As a retired investigator I always got all sides of an incident before making any decision who's story was truthful. Of course, if these things happened years ago might not be anything can be done now.

 

[badkarma]

If this was a court of law and I had to make judgement only on that 16 sec. video it would be a murder by cop. I'm not building a case for myself, just expressing an opinion on what I saw. If my opinion upsets you to this degree you should read something else.

Well, thank goodness you weren't on the board or a good cop or two might now be in prison. I find it curious that you support "our troops, especially our snipers" Snipers particularly have to make snap judgments about intent and capacity giving consideration to ROE and I guarantee you if this person took those actions while being observed in the scope the shot would be taken every day of the week. His intent was unknown but his prior actions in total with his final action raising a weapon are all that's required. Fortunately the officers involved as well as the board made the correct judgement in this case.

 

[JackBull]

The good ones are getting pushed out in many places and if being replaced at all, they are onboarding some very questionable recruits.

I've seen a ton of my good friends "retire". A lot of LEOs make ends meet with OT and secondary work. The OT is drying up. Departments are cutting back. A lot of them can't deal with the wokeness of County/City liberals interference and unqualified promotions due to, well you know the drill.....and just being judged as demons. Don't blame them for hanging up their boots.

Americas ACAB and DFTP types have cried and demonized enough.....they may not like what they've started.

Just because we believe the leos actions were wrong does not mean we support ACAB or DFTP. Your us vs them mentality appears to be the issue.

 

[Bigbore5]

I would like to read your data that backs up your opinions with facts. Is that what happened at a PD you worked at if so let us know. I suspect you are basing your opinions on news events not real life. Or maybe someone you knew may have said some of that, if so, was that based on something from many years ago. Although my daily experience was at 4 PDs in 39 years I worked with and had friends in many others. This is how I would make your statement. Based on real police work in the West.
There are a few bad apples, the majority are good hard working moral people. Circling the wagon to protect others ended years, decades ago. It's not worth oneself to lose a job over other's failures or illegal activities. It's better to report the abuse for your own career, the community and Department.
All major departments have police oversight, many have outside agencies including the DAs office or city/county council to do investigations on their officers. Few officers ever abuse their power, if so, they get fired or other disciplinary actions happen. Action taken depends on totality of the offense. No PD or government (city, county, state or federal) can afford lawsuits generated by such conduct. There needs to be stricter standards in hiring. Not hiring based on race/sex or sexual preferences. High moral standards are most important along with physical abilities.
Impartial oversight must be done by people who know the law and how it's applied. Retired cops or cops from other agencies, criminal and civil lawyers should also be considered. The average citizen doesn't have a real clue about laws or how there applied. Attending some real police training and learning laws should be a must before reviewing incidents about proper police conduct or not. Passing judgement on conduct based on watching the news or reading web stories is far to skewed in one way or another.

Yes, I have seen it personally. You said you were an officer in the West. There's a difference in mentality I have noticed in the West versus the East, especially in metropolitan departments. New Orleans internal affairs was very serious about the job. However the public affairs office and the brass was very serious about image protection first, foremost, and always. Graft and corruption was handled with a quiet termination rather than prosecution. A questionable shooting was defended at the cost of finding the truth. That's not hearsay, I was there and am the one who took the officer's gun and pushed the charge. I became so disgusted I left the department. The other guy got a promotion soon after. IA looked at it but just didn't have enough to go forwards after. If they would have had body cams then, the results would have been very different. Throwdown pieces don't work anymore.

 

[kmoore]

Yes, I have seen it personally. You said you were an officer in the West. There's a difference in mentality I have noticed in the West versus the East, especially in metropolitan departments. New Orleans internal affairs was very serious about the job. However the public affairs office and the brass was very serious about image protection first, foremost, and always. Graft and corruption was handled with a quiet termination rather than prosecution. A questionable shooting was defended at the cost of finding the truth. That's not hearsay, I was there and am the one who took the officer's gun and pushed the charge. I became so disgusted I left the department. The other guy got a promotion soon after. IA looked at it but just didn't have enough to go forwards after. If they would have had body cams then, the results would have been very different. Throwdown pieces don't work anymore.

I now understand you post. I worked with a guy from New Orleans, If I didn't know him when he said things about that city and the PD I wouldn't have believed it. That was from the early 80s. After Katrina, A close buddy who was a NF law enforcement ranger was asked to work there for weeks. Upon return, at coffee, he said he will never go back and would refuse if told to work there again. He had an easy job, ride on fire trucks when they left the station. They got shot at often. The PD wouldn't send help. PD officers were wearing gang bandanas. Talk about corruption.

 

[contender]

I have read a lot of the back & forth discussions about police conduct, mostly pointing out the bad. I have been friends with many LEO's throughout my life. My youngest is LEO. A good friend is a NCHP officer,, shot in the chest exactly 1 year ago yesterday, (No warning, no provocation, no previous bad interaction, he just stopped to do a broken down vehicle assist.)
A brother from another mother retired from a Federal LEO agency.

Over the years,, I've heard all kinds of stories of how badly they were treated by citizens. How they were attacked, abused, or whatever. Two days ago,, my son called me just to vent some of his frustration while doing his job.

And I too have witnessed police abusing their authority, doing illegal stuff, or other negative things. Inexcusable and should be prosecuted.

But a few things come to mind.
(1) LEO's are human. ALL of us make mistakes, and all of us have broken some law somewhere. They are no different.
(2) The current political, climate, as well as the public attitudes, combined with more & more citizens refusing to comply with LEO commands has created a much harsher AND dangerous environment for LEO's to do their job.
(3) Respect for laws, and those who try & enforce them has greatly diminished.
(4) Just like gun owners,, the FEW who do illegal or wrong things are demonized by the media & the public. (Remember,, the percentages of how many LEO's there are vs the bad ones,, just like the percentages of law abiding gun owners vs the criminal element.)
(5) Overall,,,, most LEO's try hard to do a good job, and try to treat people as good as they can,, even when the person is not cooperating.
(6) LEO's paint a target on themselves by just wearing a uniform. (See the number of officer ambushes,, where they have been killed while NOT answering a call or going to a false call & getting shot.)
(7) Many people, including many on this Forum could NOT do the job that LEO's are required to do.
(8) Glaringly missing from this thread is all the GOOD things LEO's do daily.

And lastly,, (9) I wonder how the world would be in just a few short weeks after ALL and I mean ALL LEO's in every dept, or agency completely quit. Think of the way the criminal element would run rampant, and while many of us here may well be capable of self protection,, think of your loved ones who may NOT have the tools or means or ability to survive the violent actions of criminals. How many truly innocent people would die? We all have "sheeple" types in our families. They would become victims of rampant crime.
This is why I'm scared of the "Defund the police" movement.

Good cops are wonderful. The few who do bad,, need removal & prosecution. But we really need a complete return to respect for the law and those who enforce it. And it needs to come from the people, the media, and LEO's all at the same time.

 

[kmoore]

I have read a lot of the back & forth discussions about police conduct, mostly pointing out the bad. I have been friends with many LEO's throughout my life. My youngest is LEO. A good friend is a NCHP officer,, shot in the chest exactly 1 year ago yesterday, (No warning, no provocation, no previous bad interaction, he just stopped to do a broken down vehicle assist.)
A brother from another mother retired from a Federal LEO agency.

Over the years,, I've heard all kinds of stories of how badly they were treated by citizens. How they were attacked, abused, or whatever. Two days ago,, my son called me just to vent some of his frustration while doing his job.

And I too have witnessed police abusing their authority, doing illegal stuff, or other negative things. Inexcusable and should be prosecuted.

But a few things come to mind.
(1) LEO's are human. ALL of us make mistakes, and all of us have broken some law somewhere. They are no different.
(2) The current political, climate, as well as the public attitudes, combined with more & more citizens refusing to comply with LEO commands has created a much harsher AND dangerous environment for LEO's to do their job.
(3) Respect for laws, and those who try & enforce them has greatly diminished.
(4) Just like gun owners,, the FEW who do illegal or wrong things are demonized by the media & the public. (Remember,, the percentages of how many LEO's there are vs the bad ones,, just like the percentages of law abiding gun owners vs the criminal element.)
(5) Overall,,,, most LEO's try hard to do a good job, and try to treat people as good as they can,, even when the person is not cooperating.
(6) LEO's paint a target on themselves by just wearing a uniform. (See the number of officer ambushes,, where they have been killed while NOT answering a call or going to a false call & getting shot.)
(7) Many people, including many on this Forum could NOT do the job that LEO's are required to do.
(8) Glaringly missing from this thread is all the GOOD things LEO's do daily.

And lastly,, (9) I wonder how the world would be in just a few short weeks after ALL and I mean ALL LEO's in every dept, or agency completely quit. Think of the way the criminal element would run rampant, and while many of us here may well be capable of self protection,, think of your loved ones who may NOT have the tools or means or ability to survive the violent actions of criminals. How many truly innocent people would die? We all have "sheeple" types in our families. They would become victims of rampant crime.
This is why I'm scared of the "Defund the police" movement.

Good cops are wonderful. The few who do bad,, need removal & prosecution. But we really need a complete return to respect for the law and those who enforce it. And it needs to come from the people, the media, and LEO's all at the same time.

I had a co worker working a rural area in 1992 who was shot 3 times in the back of his head. Why? He was kind enough to give the guy a ride back in town. The shooter was not under arrest or anything, just a courtesy ride off a rural highway. The killers friend had been arrested for DUII. The killer had not been searched, pulled out a revolver and fired from the back seat. I knew his wife for many years, she was once an officer. She took her life 14 months later, but before the trial. His name was Bret Clodfelter his wife Rene. Both outstanding people. As I recall the killer was released and deported back to Mexico after some years in a prison. The DA announced that the county could not afford a death sentence case. The killer was convicted of aggravated murder.

 

[blume357]

They needed a Peewee Gasken in the prison he was sent to.